I'm not gonna hand it to Cheney. She cleared a low bar and outside of that agrees with every awful policy the pre -Trump GOP ever cooked up. But while the enemy of my event may not be my friend, I hope she at least makes room for other conservatives to form an alliance of convenience, just this once.
Exactly....I want them back on THEIR side of the fence once this episode is over...I don't WANT to be 'friends' with them, and that's OK...I don't want there to be any 'expectations of favor' for 'services rendered' when the dust has settled...It MUST be temporary because OTHERWISE they can drag us BACK to middle that we've been working so hard to get away FROM...
People who should know better, and probably do, but who back trump and his big lie, because they think that it will lead to power, have no moral compass. Vance, Haley, McCarthy, Johnson, and McConnell are the most visible of such weirdos. I can't imagine the hell that they have made for themselves, but it's of their own doing. They sold their souls, and not even to Satan. but to a conman, a felon, a rapist, a traitor - DonOld Trump.
Liz Cheney can live with herself, because she did the right thing. I applaud her courage in rejecting power in order to save democracy.
They're also pretty stupid, their fancy degrees notwithstanding. (Let's just say the Ivy League has a lot to answer for, pumping out dumbfucks like these) They just assume Trump will die and his following will stick around and say "yes let's get behind the bearded couch fucker, he'll turn us out like Trump did, no way were we just loyal to the person of Trump". And of course they are steadily driving out the normal suburban "martini and Cronkite" Republicans that the party once counted on. They'll be presiding over a smoking wreck.
That's She Who Is My Partner's parents. Lifelong Republicans, not what you'd call socially or fiscally liberal, couldn't vote for That [gendered expletive] Hillary, but by 2018 were regretting their decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if they sit this year out entirely.
I know a lot of people who were pretty regular GOP voters even through the Bush years, and Trump just broke them. Some are even regular Democratic voters now. What I think did it for them is the plausible deniability of the GOP in the old days was gone, Trump said the quiet part loud, and it was no longer possible to rationalize to yourself that the hatefulness and extremism was just a fringe part of the party.
Frankly, I doubt the magas will latch on to anyone else when trump croaks. Or if they do latch on to someone, it won't be one of those fuckers, it will be another conman (it will have a be a man, and a white one at that), who can give them the permission to be their worst selves, like trump. Sure, Vance, Haley and the rest may try it, but even the magas would remember the times the criticized Dear Leader.
It will splinter with some going with Bannon and Flynn and some with Hawley/ Vance and a third shitkicker Senator and some going back to the shadows again…
exactly...these things don't happen piggyback style...they have a long narrative arc and methinks this arc has all but played out....When Harris wins next week, that will put an end on 't...There will be some BS in the next few weeks but not as crazy as people think it will be...I hope I'm right...
What they DON'T have this time is the element of surprise. we know WHO they are and WHAT they plan to do...And shit is ALREADY backfiring...
If Biden had stayed in the race, we'd be ROYALLY FUCKED right now...,No matter WHAT happens, it will ALWAYS have been the right choice to go with Harris...
Yep--a big chunk of Trump's support comes from people who just like Trump personally and aren't pro-GOP and won't continue to come out for future candidates. Graham could think "well maybe we can win them over" but most of them are going when Trump is no longer on the ballot (notice they don't help Republicans much in midterms).
Wowwww and yep, even someone as conservative as a Cheney isn't good enough for the cult. A fantastic, incisive article on just what we're facing as we get down to the two-week warning. So many people willfully ignoring the vast number of former allies deriding President Klan Robe. That should be a warning bell; such a thing has never happened before.
But America is just branding for the unreconstructed Republican Party; it's really just a fascist nationalist cult movement. They hate what the real idea of America is; they have a twisted simulacrum of the 1950s and 1850s in their mind for how they want to run America.
I award Cheney no points. Were she sincere she'd become a no-holds-barred Democrat which is the only way to defeat tangeranus. That she refuses to do so is telling.
I don't expect her to become a liberal, after all that's not the reason she opposed Trump. And her staying a right winger on other issues makes her decision to oppose Trump far more powerful, and useful--she can speak to other conservatives who are skeptical of liberals like Harris but have a problem with Trump's fascism.
She's literally endorsed, and campaigns for, Kamala Harris--she's doing everything we want from her, and it really displays the cowardice and shittitude of those who have NOT backed Harris publicly.
Exactly! I don't WANT her and the other republicans ex-pats anywhere NEAR the democratic party once this shit show is over...Its OK for EVERYONE involved to know that this is a TEMPORARY alliance. We do NOT NEED to become 'friends'...And there is NOTHING wrong with EITHER side simply acknowledging that.
Liz Cheney doesn’t have to become a Democrat to help Kamala win. In fact, that she’s a never-Trumper helps immensely. I award her all the points that matter during this time of political crisis. No need to set up artificial standards for accepting her powerful help, and we need all the help we can get.
as long as there's no price tag pending...That's the only concern that folks have, and its a valid concern ...Republicans are a particularly transactional species...they don't do ANYTHING for 'free'..As long as we keep this alliance HYPER focused on the ONE objective, beating Trump THEN we can go back to being 'enemies'...
I’m not sure what ‘price tag’ you’re thinking of. And I really don’t think it’s ever a good idea to paint all members of any group with a broad brush. I’m tired of the “us vs. them, they’re our enemies” binary view. It doesn’t help at all.
Well buckle up because that’s what it is…Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable….We didn’t WANT to go to war against Germany in 1939, that’s not how it works.. The differences between what REPUBLICANS want for America and what WE want for America are FUNDAMENTALLY at odds with each other…Like, intractably fundamentally…now I’m FINE with this temporary alliance, AS LONG as we understand it for what it is…A TEMPORARY alliance…And that we TERMINATE it once our mutual goal is accomplished…
I KNOW that you would prefer that we all just get along and let bygones be bygones but that’s just now how it works…And by ‘pricetag’ I mean something like giving Liz Cheney the Sec. of Defence gig…You know as a ‘thank you’
Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger showed themselves to be the only true Republican patriots to survive the 2020-21 Trumpian fuckery with their souls intact but their careers in ruins. They weren’t the only ones. (Look at the fate of many J6 police officers, for example. Five suicides in the immediate aftermath of the Insurrection. Of the four who testified at the Select Committee’s opening hearing, in July 2021, only one remains on the MPD force. Their lives are ruined and they’re still to this day being threatened and harassed by MAGAts.)
Nevertheless, Cheney and Kinzinger persisted. Pelosi masterfully manipulated McCarthy to get Cheney and Kinzinger on the bipartisan J6 Select Committee, and Liz in particular pushed the hearings through, producing lots of evidence for Jack Smith’s indictments. She knew she was done, and to her, it was worth it. And now she’s campaigning big-time for Kamala. She’s a goddam national hero.
Speaking of McCarthy, he sold his soul to trump, and did get to be Speaker for less than a year, but after a humiliating 15 (if I remember correctly) votes, and then more humiliations as Speaker (not getting anything done without Dem support*), and finally, the ultimate humiliation - ousted as Speaker. His political career is ruined, but he lacks Cheney's and Kinzinger's dignity. If you are going down anyway, go down doing the right thing and retain your dignity.
* I can remember when Republicans passed bills with Democratic support, and even input, when Reps were in the majority. They worked across the aisle with Dems for the good of the country. But since the 1990s, they don't give a damn about the country, and only want to pass things with repubs, so it's considered bad for a Speaker to use Dems to get things passed. Yeah, they are weirdos.
She could have easily won that seat in 2022 if she had bent a knee to trump. I completely disagree with her politically but I have deep respect for what she's doing for democracy. When she co-chaired the January 6th committee she showed her integrity and her respect for the rule of law. Vance is scarier than trump and waiting in the wings is the very worst, ron desantis. This fight for democracy will be long and we can give up because "we won't go back"!!
I think it's BECAUSE we abhor so much of what she stands for policy-wise that we should respect what she's doing for the country. It really isn't hard for say AOC to take a stand against Trump--she opposes pretty much every political stance he takes. But Cheney is at heart a conservative Republican, and one who had a bright future in the GOP (she was part of House leadership, and conceivably could have been Speaker by now, not that THAT is a great prize considering the caucus). She had no problem with Trump's policies as of January 5 2021. How easy to just ignore his anti-democratic antics and keep her head down! Many have done that without having to so publicly humiliate themselves like Vance or Graham.
That's what makes her sacrifice and her continued speaking out so meaningful. "I will sacrifice every political policy I favor and sacrifice my own political career because a dictatorship is a dealbreaker" is what we all want our leaders to believe, but few of them have had to pass this test.
Lowlife bottom feeders like Vance hate people like Cheney far more than they hate even the most prominent liberals, because the Cheneys of the world are constant living reminders that there are those out there who know as well as Vance surely does that Trump is an evil and stupid man who has no business being in power, and that while Vance chose to degrade himself in hopes of power, Cheney was willing to sacrifice power for a key democratic principle. The NeverTrumpers are a constant living rebuke of the sordid choice Vance made, and it burns him to be constantly reminded of what he is.
He has to look at his brown skinned non-Christian wife, knowing that he had to genuflect towards white and Christian supremacy, and that the cause he is serving will endanger other brown skinned non-Christians (no, his wife is likely safe, she's a wealthy connected douchebag just like her husband, let's not pretend she's somehow better than this thing she's enabling). He has to look at his old NeverTrump buddies who are saying it is worth a GOP defeat if it saves the country from fascism, knowing he once agreed with them publicly, but dispensed with principle so he could get a meteoric rise to power. Like Haley, he figures Trump will die soon enough ("why won't the gross bastard just kick off???" they're thinking) and he'll be in a good position to pick up the reins. And the power will be worth the gross empty feeling inside.
It really exposes the Vances and Grahams for what they are. Their big excuse is "but liberals are worse and Trump gives us what we want". That's the rallying cry for all the GOP enablers. But Cheney (and other NeverTrumpers) stand as an example of "no, policy gains are important but our constitutional system is MORE important".
There needs to be stronger response to lies and defamation.
"CNN’s official MAGA gaslighter"! I love that!
Clearly Cheney is a person that Russia has no Kompromat on.
I'm not gonna hand it to Cheney. She cleared a low bar and outside of that agrees with every awful policy the pre -Trump GOP ever cooked up. But while the enemy of my event may not be my friend, I hope she at least makes room for other conservatives to form an alliance of convenience, just this once.
Exactly....I want them back on THEIR side of the fence once this episode is over...I don't WANT to be 'friends' with them, and that's OK...I don't want there to be any 'expectations of favor' for 'services rendered' when the dust has settled...It MUST be temporary because OTHERWISE they can drag us BACK to middle that we've been working so hard to get away FROM...
Lindsey is a remora, he attaches himself to a larger, more powerful thing and goes along for the ride. He has absolutely zero character or principles.
fun fact: " 𝐴𝘭𝑡𝘩𝑜𝘶𝑔𝘩 𝘪𝑡 𝑤𝘢𝑠 𝑖𝘯𝑖𝘵𝑖𝘢𝑙𝘭𝑦 𝑏𝘦𝑙𝘪𝑒𝘷𝑒𝘥 𝘵ℎ𝘢𝑡 𝑟𝘦𝑚𝘰𝑟𝘢𝑠 𝑓𝘦𝑑 𝑜𝘧𝑓 𝑝𝘢𝑟𝘵𝑖𝘤𝑢𝘭𝑎𝘵𝑒 𝑚𝘢𝑡𝘵𝑒𝘳 𝘧𝑟𝘰𝑚 𝑡𝘩𝑒 ℎ𝘰𝑠𝘵'𝘴 𝘮𝑒𝘢𝑙𝘴, 𝑡𝘩𝑖𝘴 𝘩𝑎𝘴 𝘣𝑒𝘦𝑛 𝑠𝘩𝑜𝘸𝑛 𝑡𝘰 𝘣𝑒 𝑓𝘢𝑙𝘴𝑒; 𝘪𝑛 𝑟𝘦𝑎𝘭𝑖𝘵𝑦, 𝘵ℎ𝘦𝑖𝘳 𝘥𝑖𝘦𝑡𝘴 𝘢𝑟𝘦 𝘤𝑜𝘮𝑝𝘰𝑠𝘦𝑑 𝑝𝘳𝑖𝘮𝑎𝘳𝑖𝘭𝑦 𝑜𝘧 𝘩𝑜𝘴𝑡 𝑓𝘦𝑐𝘦𝑠.[8]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remora
['𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙈𝙤𝙧𝙚 𝙔𝙤𝙪 𝙆𝙣𝙤𝙬' 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙢𝙚]
RWNJ human centipede Ouroboros
Trump is holding something over Lindsey's head.
Lindsey will slip out of the leash and then get snapped back into place too quickly for it to be just power.
💯% Agree!
“She just believes he’s disqualified himself by his conduct, more than it’s any kind of political analysis,”
Well YEAH! Conduct and character are very important but then Lindsey has neither either.
I'll never forgive the GOP for putting me back on the same side with the Cheneys.
People who should know better, and probably do, but who back trump and his big lie, because they think that it will lead to power, have no moral compass. Vance, Haley, McCarthy, Johnson, and McConnell are the most visible of such weirdos. I can't imagine the hell that they have made for themselves, but it's of their own doing. They sold their souls, and not even to Satan. but to a conman, a felon, a rapist, a traitor - DonOld Trump.
Liz Cheney can live with herself, because she did the right thing. I applaud her courage in rejecting power in order to save democracy.
THIS time is gonna be DIFFERENT! Just you wait and see!
In fairness, Donald IS Satan, or the Antichrist, however that fits the mythology.
They're also pretty stupid, their fancy degrees notwithstanding. (Let's just say the Ivy League has a lot to answer for, pumping out dumbfucks like these) They just assume Trump will die and his following will stick around and say "yes let's get behind the bearded couch fucker, he'll turn us out like Trump did, no way were we just loyal to the person of Trump". And of course they are steadily driving out the normal suburban "martini and Cronkite" Republicans that the party once counted on. They'll be presiding over a smoking wreck.
That's She Who Is My Partner's parents. Lifelong Republicans, not what you'd call socially or fiscally liberal, couldn't vote for That [gendered expletive] Hillary, but by 2018 were regretting their decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if they sit this year out entirely.
I know a lot of people who were pretty regular GOP voters even through the Bush years, and Trump just broke them. Some are even regular Democratic voters now. What I think did it for them is the plausible deniability of the GOP in the old days was gone, Trump said the quiet part loud, and it was no longer possible to rationalize to yourself that the hatefulness and extremism was just a fringe part of the party.
Frankly, I doubt the magas will latch on to anyone else when trump croaks. Or if they do latch on to someone, it won't be one of those fuckers, it will be another conman (it will have a be a man, and a white one at that), who can give them the permission to be their worst selves, like trump. Sure, Vance, Haley and the rest may try it, but even the magas would remember the times the criticized Dear Leader.
It will splinter with some going with Bannon and Flynn and some with Hawley/ Vance and a third shitkicker Senator and some going back to the shadows again…
exactly...these things don't happen piggyback style...they have a long narrative arc and methinks this arc has all but played out....When Harris wins next week, that will put an end on 't...There will be some BS in the next few weeks but not as crazy as people think it will be...I hope I'm right...
What they DON'T have this time is the element of surprise. we know WHO they are and WHAT they plan to do...And shit is ALREADY backfiring...
If Biden had stayed in the race, we'd be ROYALLY FUCKED right now...,No matter WHAT happens, it will ALWAYS have been the right choice to go with Harris...
Wow it can’t be next week already?
Yep--a big chunk of Trump's support comes from people who just like Trump personally and aren't pro-GOP and won't continue to come out for future candidates. Graham could think "well maybe we can win them over" but most of them are going when Trump is no longer on the ballot (notice they don't help Republicans much in midterms).
Yeah..nihilists basically...
Wowwww and yep, even someone as conservative as a Cheney isn't good enough for the cult. A fantastic, incisive article on just what we're facing as we get down to the two-week warning. So many people willfully ignoring the vast number of former allies deriding President Klan Robe. That should be a warning bell; such a thing has never happened before.
But America is just branding for the unreconstructed Republican Party; it's really just a fascist nationalist cult movement. They hate what the real idea of America is; they have a twisted simulacrum of the 1950s and 1850s in their mind for how they want to run America.
Cheney frightens them more than anything. Because she's a reminder of the choice they were too cowardly to make.
I award Cheney no points. Were she sincere she'd become a no-holds-barred Democrat which is the only way to defeat tangeranus. That she refuses to do so is telling.
Why?
Why does she have to do a complete 180 instead of just agreeing that somethings are unacceptable in a democracy?
I don't expect her to become a liberal, after all that's not the reason she opposed Trump. And her staying a right winger on other issues makes her decision to oppose Trump far more powerful, and useful--she can speak to other conservatives who are skeptical of liberals like Harris but have a problem with Trump's fascism.
She's literally endorsed, and campaigns for, Kamala Harris--she's doing everything we want from her, and it really displays the cowardice and shittitude of those who have NOT backed Harris publicly.
Exactly! I don't WANT her and the other republicans ex-pats anywhere NEAR the democratic party once this shit show is over...Its OK for EVERYONE involved to know that this is a TEMPORARY alliance. We do NOT NEED to become 'friends'...And there is NOTHING wrong with EITHER side simply acknowledging that.
Liz Cheney doesn’t have to become a Democrat to help Kamala win. In fact, that she’s a never-Trumper helps immensely. I award her all the points that matter during this time of political crisis. No need to set up artificial standards for accepting her powerful help, and we need all the help we can get.
as long as there's no price tag pending...That's the only concern that folks have, and its a valid concern ...Republicans are a particularly transactional species...they don't do ANYTHING for 'free'..As long as we keep this alliance HYPER focused on the ONE objective, beating Trump THEN we can go back to being 'enemies'...
I’m not sure what ‘price tag’ you’re thinking of. And I really don’t think it’s ever a good idea to paint all members of any group with a broad brush. I’m tired of the “us vs. them, they’re our enemies” binary view. It doesn’t help at all.
“I’m tired of the “us vs. them”
Well buckle up because that’s what it is…Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable….We didn’t WANT to go to war against Germany in 1939, that’s not how it works.. The differences between what REPUBLICANS want for America and what WE want for America are FUNDAMENTALLY at odds with each other…Like, intractably fundamentally…now I’m FINE with this temporary alliance, AS LONG as we understand it for what it is…A TEMPORARY alliance…And that we TERMINATE it once our mutual goal is accomplished…
I KNOW that you would prefer that we all just get along and let bygones be bygones but that’s just now how it works…And by ‘pricetag’ I mean something like giving Liz Cheney the Sec. of Defence gig…You know as a ‘thank you’
Thanks for all the mansplaining. This conversation is now over.
Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger showed themselves to be the only true Republican patriots to survive the 2020-21 Trumpian fuckery with their souls intact but their careers in ruins. They weren’t the only ones. (Look at the fate of many J6 police officers, for example. Five suicides in the immediate aftermath of the Insurrection. Of the four who testified at the Select Committee’s opening hearing, in July 2021, only one remains on the MPD force. Their lives are ruined and they’re still to this day being threatened and harassed by MAGAts.)
Nevertheless, Cheney and Kinzinger persisted. Pelosi masterfully manipulated McCarthy to get Cheney and Kinzinger on the bipartisan J6 Select Committee, and Liz in particular pushed the hearings through, producing lots of evidence for Jack Smith’s indictments. She knew she was done, and to her, it was worth it. And now she’s campaigning big-time for Kamala. She’s a goddam national hero.
Agree completely.
Speaking of McCarthy, he sold his soul to trump, and did get to be Speaker for less than a year, but after a humiliating 15 (if I remember correctly) votes, and then more humiliations as Speaker (not getting anything done without Dem support*), and finally, the ultimate humiliation - ousted as Speaker. His political career is ruined, but he lacks Cheney's and Kinzinger's dignity. If you are going down anyway, go down doing the right thing and retain your dignity.
* I can remember when Republicans passed bills with Democratic support, and even input, when Reps were in the majority. They worked across the aisle with Dems for the good of the country. But since the 1990s, they don't give a damn about the country, and only want to pass things with repubs, so it's considered bad for a Speaker to use Dems to get things passed. Yeah, they are weirdos.
She could have easily won that seat in 2022 if she had bent a knee to trump. I completely disagree with her politically but I have deep respect for what she's doing for democracy. When she co-chaired the January 6th committee she showed her integrity and her respect for the rule of law. Vance is scarier than trump and waiting in the wings is the very worst, ron desantis. This fight for democracy will be long and we can give up because "we won't go back"!!
I think it's BECAUSE we abhor so much of what she stands for policy-wise that we should respect what she's doing for the country. It really isn't hard for say AOC to take a stand against Trump--she opposes pretty much every political stance he takes. But Cheney is at heart a conservative Republican, and one who had a bright future in the GOP (she was part of House leadership, and conceivably could have been Speaker by now, not that THAT is a great prize considering the caucus). She had no problem with Trump's policies as of January 5 2021. How easy to just ignore his anti-democratic antics and keep her head down! Many have done that without having to so publicly humiliate themselves like Vance or Graham.
That's what makes her sacrifice and her continued speaking out so meaningful. "I will sacrifice every political policy I favor and sacrifice my own political career because a dictatorship is a dealbreaker" is what we all want our leaders to believe, but few of them have had to pass this test.
Thank you, well said and I am complete agreement.
Lowlife bottom feeders like Vance hate people like Cheney far more than they hate even the most prominent liberals, because the Cheneys of the world are constant living reminders that there are those out there who know as well as Vance surely does that Trump is an evil and stupid man who has no business being in power, and that while Vance chose to degrade himself in hopes of power, Cheney was willing to sacrifice power for a key democratic principle. The NeverTrumpers are a constant living rebuke of the sordid choice Vance made, and it burns him to be constantly reminded of what he is.
He has to look at his brown skinned non-Christian wife, knowing that he had to genuflect towards white and Christian supremacy, and that the cause he is serving will endanger other brown skinned non-Christians (no, his wife is likely safe, she's a wealthy connected douchebag just like her husband, let's not pretend she's somehow better than this thing she's enabling). He has to look at his old NeverTrump buddies who are saying it is worth a GOP defeat if it saves the country from fascism, knowing he once agreed with them publicly, but dispensed with principle so he could get a meteoric rise to power. Like Haley, he figures Trump will die soon enough ("why won't the gross bastard just kick off???" they're thinking) and he'll be in a good position to pick up the reins. And the power will be worth the gross empty feeling inside.
All of them should talk to Melania.
Because I doubt she expected to be stuck with the rotting carcass this long.
Some people will do or say anything to gain and/or keep power, and some will not. It's as simple (and as sad) as that.
It really exposes the Vances and Grahams for what they are. Their big excuse is "but liberals are worse and Trump gives us what we want". That's the rallying cry for all the GOP enablers. But Cheney (and other NeverTrumpers) stand as an example of "no, policy gains are important but our constitutional system is MORE important".
"let's not pretend she's somehow better than this thing she's enabling" yes