I consider myself fortunate because the close relatives I spend the holidays with are not Trumpers. I still avoid talking politics at such gatherings though because I’m afraid I’ll rant and there should be some spaces in our lives that Trump cannot invade.
He’s taken politics, sports, entertainment, holidays, even many families. Aren’t we, a5 long last, exhausted?
Agreed. I think the post-Trump reality is that politics is no longer about policy. Even if you disagreed strongly about the Iraq War with a relative, it was something you could fairly avoid discussing. But Trump’s criminality and cruelty is such that it feels perverse to try to maintain a false peace. It’s like attending a fancy soiree at a loved one's antebellum plantation one night and then going to an abolitionist meeting the next day.
Yep—and he injects himself into everything. You can’t enjoy sports anymore without it getting into “which team is MAGA” and “what new rules Trump weighed in on.” 20 years ago I had no idea what Peyton Manning’s politics were and I was fine with that.
And you’re right—if politics is “what’s the best way to regulate healthcare” or “what tax rate is best” you can agree to disagree because it’s all in the scope of normal. Now it’s “do you agree that half the country is scum” and “do we really need democracy” and “let me laugh at your tears, why yes I’m a well adjusted person, why do you ask?”
"The burden is placed solely on liberals to absorb bruising body blows in the interests of family harmony."
Boy, does that ring true. All the nasty asides, and unfunny "jokes" about Democrats and liberals. It's like right-wingers have this perpetual, low-level rage inside them and they cannot help themselves from vomiting out little digs. And they do it because they know we're not going to hit back (and they wouldn't be able to handle it if we did). Well, sorry right-wingers, that I'm not as miserable on a daily basis as you are.
More than ever I am thankful that I’m not heading home for thanksgiving which my sister wanted us to do. Mainly due to it being a nightmare at the airport.
Having dinner with like minded people who abhor this regime’s lawlessness.
Excellent summation of contemporary Thanksgiving in America, Stephen. Back when I hosted Thanksgiving dinner every year for ~20-25 members of my extended family, there was little-to-no open political (or religious) conflict ever amongst my guests, probably because my views were well-known to all and they knew better than to start something. It was clear that we were all there to catch up with each other’s lives and spend our time together peaceably. If any of my MAGA a-hole family members had made a scene, I’m pretty sure they knew that would be the last time we all had dinner at Aunt Nicky’s house, and someone else would have to start hosting it at their place. It worked out pretty well.
Thanks, Stephen, and Merry Thanksgiving to you and your family.
You can get this kind of audacity (especially with Leavitt) when you have a rightwing media human centipede. Democrats generally do not, so they have to contend with a pesky thing called reality.
And of course a populace willing to believe that minorities (such as undocumented immigrants) are the reason their lives suck? You can sell them everything.
Thankfully I'll not be having any such contentious discussions at my family Thanksgiving, because none of the people I have dinner with are rightwing fools.
As a vegetarian, when I was still attending the big family gathering, I learned that there is a thing in the UK where they put curry on mashed potatoes. Since the mashed potatoes was one of the steadfast "yes this is vegetarian" dishes, and I didn't want to have to deal with bringing something big/ complex to someone's kitchen, I brought a serving dish of curry to those last couple of Thanksgiving gatherings I attended. If you are vegetarian and like curry, try it over mashed potatoes!
I would say if, after nearly a decade of this you are still hosting and smiling for your out and proud MAGA relatives on holidays, that's a you problem and you need better boundaries. Of course, one thing I'm grateful for is that my family is either very anti-Trump or overall apolitical, so get togethers are pretty peaceful in that respect.
It’s really no different than “my relatives keep saying nasty shit to me”—doesn’t have to be politics, it can be anything. If you choose to tolerate it, that’s your trade off (maybe you have no choice or something).
I often have a “no politics” rule even with people I agree with because politics can get us worked up. Trump shouldn’t be able to live rent free in our heads.
Exactly. I’d much rather talk about more pleasant topics. The irony is that because you’re *not* a Trumper, it feels less perverse or hypocritical to do so. If your daughter is trans and you might have to move to get her health care or to ensure she can participate fully in school, you might not burden me with that struggle at a holiday gathering. You might just say, “We’re getting some stuff sorted out but she’s really doing well otherwise.” But if I voted for this outcome and even post anti-trans rants on my FB, it’s hard to just ignore that.
Yep—I’m avoiding my more extended family because even if they’re otherwise pleasant I can’t help but think they voted for the guy who tried and is still trying to lose my job and ability to support my kid that they otherwise love. It’s just much harder to look past that when politics under Trump moved from “yes we disagree on policy” to the vicious malice he openly injects into it. I know a lot of ‘00s liberals would disagree but Bush for all his faults never seemed to openly despise so many Americans. (That doesn’t mean his policies couldn’t be horrible, but he seemed to think they were good for us)
Despite all desperate MAGA spin, Trump is a monster. He cares only about himself and betrays anyone who’s close to him. As I’ve noted, he’s had three wives and two vice presidents. He even turned on his biggest MAGA cheerleader. Bush and Biden, for example, had their flaws (regardless of your politics), but they were decent people at their core. A liberal could have a positive relationship with an Uncle W. and a conservative could have one with an Uncle Joe. But Trump is loathsome.
Absolutely. I’m no psychologist but think Trump might really be a psychopath (look how he can’t even fake having any sense of another person’s humanity) and power has only worsened him. If he was a character in fiction the writer would be criticized for making him unrealistically evil with no redeeming or relatable qualities. So when people support him there’s just no way to write it off as a difference in political leaning—this crosses the line.
Frankly I think that's the best way to do it. I'm generally against cutting important people out of your life over this. It's made everybody crazy in many ways.
Amen! Some people have trouble setting boundaries, and I can relate, but have learned to do that, and it is helping me keep my sanity. It's not easy, but once it's done, and you enjoy a peaceful holiday, it's well worth it.
💯 and honestly, I think that's what everyone wants, really, even the Trump lovers in our families. It's not asking too much to have one peaceful family day without MAGA intruding on it.
All that matters is winning the moment. It need not be consistent with any principle or even what's said *that hour.* Generally such product is intended for distribution for the rightwing media centipede, where the end consumers hear the Pavlovian trigger words and their next dopamine hit.
You’re right. And we know about that moment’s talking point, because MAGA turn around and spew. At this second in time, Mark Kelly has been bumped down to private, and accused of shooting Gabby herself so he can exploit her.
Ha, I missed that as I figured I don't need to hear them rambling on-
I make a tofu turkey from scratch, as I've had some heartburn from the tofurky ones. I'll take the progress on the narrative. This is the one I make- I've also made it in a simple casserole form, which we'll have again this year because the oven (if it gets delivered today) won't get connected until Monday, so it's a microwave- grill- airfryer feast we have planned.
Did you really name your son Daefyd? With Greenburg? That’s on beyond zebra, beyond Ashli or Ginni and Jordon. A tragedeigh. It’s nice that he likes Mom’s cooking, though.
I consider myself fortunate because the close relatives I spend the holidays with are not Trumpers. I still avoid talking politics at such gatherings though because I’m afraid I’ll rant and there should be some spaces in our lives that Trump cannot invade.
He’s taken politics, sports, entertainment, holidays, even many families. Aren’t we, a5 long last, exhausted?
Agreed. I think the post-Trump reality is that politics is no longer about policy. Even if you disagreed strongly about the Iraq War with a relative, it was something you could fairly avoid discussing. But Trump’s criminality and cruelty is such that it feels perverse to try to maintain a false peace. It’s like attending a fancy soiree at a loved one's antebellum plantation one night and then going to an abolitionist meeting the next day.
Yep—and he injects himself into everything. You can’t enjoy sports anymore without it getting into “which team is MAGA” and “what new rules Trump weighed in on.” 20 years ago I had no idea what Peyton Manning’s politics were and I was fine with that.
And you’re right—if politics is “what’s the best way to regulate healthcare” or “what tax rate is best” you can agree to disagree because it’s all in the scope of normal. Now it’s “do you agree that half the country is scum” and “do we really need democracy” and “let me laugh at your tears, why yes I’m a well adjusted person, why do you ask?”
"The burden is placed solely on liberals to absorb bruising body blows in the interests of family harmony."
Boy, does that ring true. All the nasty asides, and unfunny "jokes" about Democrats and liberals. It's like right-wingers have this perpetual, low-level rage inside them and they cannot help themselves from vomiting out little digs. And they do it because they know we're not going to hit back (and they wouldn't be able to handle it if we did). Well, sorry right-wingers, that I'm not as miserable on a daily basis as you are.
Oh wait, did I say "sorry"? I meant, "not at all sorry." ;)
More than ever I am thankful that I’m not heading home for thanksgiving which my sister wanted us to do. Mainly due to it being a nightmare at the airport.
Having dinner with like minded people who abhor this regime’s lawlessness.
Excellent summation of contemporary Thanksgiving in America, Stephen. Back when I hosted Thanksgiving dinner every year for ~20-25 members of my extended family, there was little-to-no open political (or religious) conflict ever amongst my guests, probably because my views were well-known to all and they knew better than to start something. It was clear that we were all there to catch up with each other’s lives and spend our time together peaceably. If any of my MAGA a-hole family members had made a scene, I’m pretty sure they knew that would be the last time we all had dinner at Aunt Nicky’s house, and someone else would have to start hosting it at their place. It worked out pretty well.
Thanks, Stephen, and Merry Thanksgiving to you and your family.
You can get this kind of audacity (especially with Leavitt) when you have a rightwing media human centipede. Democrats generally do not, so they have to contend with a pesky thing called reality.
And of course a populace willing to believe that minorities (such as undocumented immigrants) are the reason their lives suck? You can sell them everything.
Thankfully I'll not be having any such contentious discussions at my family Thanksgiving, because none of the people I have dinner with are rightwing fools.
LUCKY! Have a safe holiday.
You too!!!
As a vegetarian, when I was still attending the big family gathering, I learned that there is a thing in the UK where they put curry on mashed potatoes. Since the mashed potatoes was one of the steadfast "yes this is vegetarian" dishes, and I didn't want to have to deal with bringing something big/ complex to someone's kitchen, I brought a serving dish of curry to those last couple of Thanksgiving gatherings I attended. If you are vegetarian and like curry, try it over mashed potatoes!
It's hilarious how, after all these years, I can still remember the lyrics to so many of those Dysfunctional Family Christmas songs!
Loved that clip! Dana Carvey and Phil Hartman are two of my all-time favorite SNL-ers.
We cut those people off the first time around.
On another note, is there really $3/gallon gas out there? We are almost up to $5 in SoCal.
I would say if, after nearly a decade of this you are still hosting and smiling for your out and proud MAGA relatives on holidays, that's a you problem and you need better boundaries. Of course, one thing I'm grateful for is that my family is either very anti-Trump or overall apolitical, so get togethers are pretty peaceful in that respect.
It’s really no different than “my relatives keep saying nasty shit to me”—doesn’t have to be politics, it can be anything. If you choose to tolerate it, that’s your trade off (maybe you have no choice or something).
My sisters and I have declared politics off the table and it has served us well.
I often have a “no politics” rule even with people I agree with because politics can get us worked up. Trump shouldn’t be able to live rent free in our heads.
Exactly. I’d much rather talk about more pleasant topics. The irony is that because you’re *not* a Trumper, it feels less perverse or hypocritical to do so. If your daughter is trans and you might have to move to get her health care or to ensure she can participate fully in school, you might not burden me with that struggle at a holiday gathering. You might just say, “We’re getting some stuff sorted out but she’s really doing well otherwise.” But if I voted for this outcome and even post anti-trans rants on my FB, it’s hard to just ignore that.
Yep—I’m avoiding my more extended family because even if they’re otherwise pleasant I can’t help but think they voted for the guy who tried and is still trying to lose my job and ability to support my kid that they otherwise love. It’s just much harder to look past that when politics under Trump moved from “yes we disagree on policy” to the vicious malice he openly injects into it. I know a lot of ‘00s liberals would disagree but Bush for all his faults never seemed to openly despise so many Americans. (That doesn’t mean his policies couldn’t be horrible, but he seemed to think they were good for us)
Despite all desperate MAGA spin, Trump is a monster. He cares only about himself and betrays anyone who’s close to him. As I’ve noted, he’s had three wives and two vice presidents. He even turned on his biggest MAGA cheerleader. Bush and Biden, for example, had their flaws (regardless of your politics), but they were decent people at their core. A liberal could have a positive relationship with an Uncle W. and a conservative could have one with an Uncle Joe. But Trump is loathsome.
Absolutely. I’m no psychologist but think Trump might really be a psychopath (look how he can’t even fake having any sense of another person’s humanity) and power has only worsened him. If he was a character in fiction the writer would be criticized for making him unrealistically evil with no redeeming or relatable qualities. So when people support him there’s just no way to write it off as a difference in political leaning—this crosses the line.
Frankly I think that's the best way to do it. I'm generally against cutting important people out of your life over this. It's made everybody crazy in many ways.
Amen! Some people have trouble setting boundaries, and I can relate, but have learned to do that, and it is helping me keep my sanity. It's not easy, but once it's done, and you enjoy a peaceful holiday, it's well worth it.
💯 and honestly, I think that's what everyone wants, really, even the Trump lovers in our families. It's not asking too much to have one peaceful family day without MAGA intruding on it.
After years of soyboy bashing, it’s jarring to hear Fox promoting Tofurky and accepting vegetarian meals.
All that matters is winning the moment. It need not be consistent with any principle or even what's said *that hour.* Generally such product is intended for distribution for the rightwing media centipede, where the end consumers hear the Pavlovian trigger words and their next dopamine hit.
You’re right. And we know about that moment’s talking point, because MAGA turn around and spew. At this second in time, Mark Kelly has been bumped down to private, and accused of shooting Gabby herself so he can exploit her.
Ha, I missed that as I figured I don't need to hear them rambling on-
I make a tofu turkey from scratch, as I've had some heartburn from the tofurky ones. I'll take the progress on the narrative. This is the one I make- I've also made it in a simple casserole form, which we'll have again this year because the oven (if it gets delivered today) won't get connected until Monday, so it's a microwave- grill- airfryer feast we have planned.
https://healthiersteps.com/tofu-turkey/
Did you really name your son Daefyd? With Greenburg? That’s on beyond zebra, beyond Ashli or Ginni and Jordon. A tragedeigh. It’s nice that he likes Mom’s cooking, though.
Nope no kiddos of my own, the recipe is just the one I use, not one I developed.