Great column, Stephen. Isn't it telling that Democratic politicians are scolded if they don't publicly distance themselves from the left wing, at least enough to suit the cons, but the same cons never scold republican politicians who never attempt to distance themselves from the right wing? It's like Democrats in Washington always have to reach out to the republicans in Washington, and compromise is that the reps get what they want, and the Dems get one or two of what they want.
Do any of those columnists recognize that many of the Jewish persuasion also protest? That they think the Netanyahu government sucks? That they protest because they sympathize with the injustice done to the Gazans while not supporting Hamas? SMH.
If anything, Jewish people are overrepresented among pro-Palestinian protesters in the U.S. (compared to their share of the population). It's absurd to suggest that just because there's some anti-semites among the overall protesters that all the protesters agree with them.
Yeah, from the "Israel IS Judaism, so any criticism of Israel is criticism of all Jews" contingent, I could see that. But it's an inconvenient fact for that narrative that American Jews on the whole are more likely to be critical of Israeli policy than say Republicans.
Well here you go with, you know, nuance. Unfortunately the click-based MSM and its adjuncts don't play that. With a heaping helping of Murc's Law and here we go. Biden has to control every protest and no matter what he's also going to be subject to the Biden Paradox. No matter what choice is made it'll be the wrong one.
I don't love how the college protests against the war in Gaza are being spun as antisemitism. To be sure some antisemites are piling on to the protests, but it's not as if it's the college students themselves in large numbers. Heck, they had a Seder at the Columbia U encampment. I understand why right wing shit stirrers would use these protests to voice their hate of the joos, but it's less understandable why the MSM seems laser focused on the shit stirrers and not on those with principled stances on the excesses of Bibi's wholly indiscriminate military operation.
Thank you for saying this. There is almost no direct and specific evidence that the protestors on campuses are violent or antisemitic. We need to stop repeating this like it is a fact, because it is not. Some on campuses say they do not "feel safe," but that is coming from both Muslim AND Jewish students, and not feeling safe is not the same as not being safe.
I read article after article claiming that there's horrific antisemitism, without citing *any specific evidence* of such, or the evidence turns out to be someone yelling "F*ck Israel." Not very couth, but anyone suggesting that sentiment is antisemitic is attempting to conflate Israel with the whole of the Jewish diaspora, which: no. People looking to cause trouble like to show up at protests; that does not mean the protest itself is invalid, or we should be focused on bad actors over the larger purpose of the protest.
There's video out there of a student walking into the Columbia protest wearing a shirt that says JEW on one side and ISRAEL on the other, yelling at the protestors, clearly intending to rile people up. They just ignore her.
Will, Boot, Stevens, Walsh and the rest of the conservatives who are selectively applying their idea of what the Sister Souljah thing was all about and what Biden needs to do to stick it to the 'progressives' in a way they approve also quote MLK 'content of their character' at every opportunity for the same reasons.
This situation is not at all like that one. While the conflict in Gaza is terrible, both in terms of the continued holding of hostages and Netanyahu's terrible (murderous and ineffective) response, much of what is happening in the campuses is not about that situation, but devolved into a generalized 'death to Israel' and terrorizing Jewish students, with no relationship to the actual situation, and obviously destroying the state of Israel, which is what is being called for, is not something Biden or anyone is going to legitimize (and again, this happened because Iran, with Putin's support, wanted to disrupt the real peace talks that were progressing with the Gulf states, which is why the West Bank is not involved and Jordan protected Israel from Iran).
Point is, there is nothing Biden can provide that would satisfy what the students are demanding other than the murder of millions of people, even stopping Netanyahu (which should be done) will not be enough (and my personal feeling is that this upheaval and division is exactly what Putin understood would help Trump, so I think Biden is smart in taking a more covert role, like he did in stopping a larger attack by Bibi on Iran).
Despite the hyperbole, Sister Souljah was never an actual threat, and racism in this country is a matter that still needs to be addressed in this country by leadership in this country.
Probably almost a total sidebar, but I kinda wonder if the reason I even know the name ‘Sister Souljah’ was that moment having become such a moment. I’m at best very patchily hip hop literate and would have been rather more so then, and actually don’t even remember being aware of either incident (what she said, what Clinton did), yet I know that name, think I vaguely had an idea she was sorta seen as pretty in your face. Betting it was mostly that thing floating around.
Reading on her now I’m thinking I will make a bit of time to listen and read some of her actual stuff later—it seems almost only fair to know a little more, when that one sentence is pretty much the only words I’ve ever heard from her directly, and it does seem she went on to say lots more that others have found worth a read.
She was pretty unknown at the time--I think the main reason the story got such play is that Clinton's partisans (who wanted to push an image of him as a "new" kind of Democrat--not the kind that lost the last three POTUS elections for being too "liberal") helped spread the story. The idea was "Clinton is not afraid of Jesse Jackson!" (although as Stephen notes, Clinton didn't denounce Jackson at all, he merely took exception to some rhetoric made by one of Jackson's previous guests). It was supposed to reassure moderates that Clinton would not be beholden to his party's Left.
It is so gd aggravating. You can be both pro Isreal and anti Netanyahu and pro Palestine and anti Hamas. My other observation is Hamas got exactly what it wanted. An entire generation of Palestinians now hate Israel with the passion of a thousand burning suns and will for the rest of their lives. It will never end.
In fact, if you think Israeli civilians and Palestinian civilians should live in peace and dignity, it'd be normal to oppose Netanhayu and Hamas together, as both are working to the detriment of both of those populations at the same time.
Exactly! I would have hated for other countries to think Trump=America=all American citizens. Just as I am sure Netanyahu does not represent a large swath of Israelis. He’s done precious little to get the hostages back, for one thing. Hamas seems to be winning the public relations war here and that is terrifying.
Protestors can protest. Not sure what they’re accomplishing but it’s their right. When hatred and lawlessness comes in, that’s a problem. I suspect a lot of troublemakers are taking advantage of this opportunity.
The attack on Israel was WRONG. The response is overkill and also wrong. I think Netanyahu is also taking advantage of an opportunity.
The media latched on to the "Sister Souljah" moment because it was easy to symbolize, but Clinton had a lot more behind his moderate bona fides than that instance--he was pro-death penalty (a contrast with the Dems' most recent nominee), even flying back to Arkansas mid-campaign to watch an execution of a mentally retarded man, and on abortion he stressed "safe, legal and rare" (the "rare" part being a play for the center). He called for middle class tax cuts, spending cuts, welfare reform--all sorts of things to show he wasn't another Dukakis. And it didn't hurt that he had a southern accent--hard to look like an east coast liberal when you sound like Jerry Reed.
I wish the "Biden is genocide" and "Biden is in thrall to the pro-Hamas nuts" people would be forced to talk to each other and get their stories straight. Which is it, folks? Far as I can see Biden is pro-Israel, forcefully opposes anti-semitism full-stop, but also wants an end to the killing of civilians (Jewish and Arab). Seems pretty normal and moderate, even if you think there are some things he should be doing differently to meet those goals. But I think for a lot of people, left and right, they just hate Biden and will look at everything with a slant to make the facts fit their narratives.
What if, on the other hand, this is just a decent, reasonable guy, doing what he can within the constraints of his job to bring about a humane solution to this mess?
There's a nonzero number of these folks that are just looking for an excuse - any one will do - to not vote for Biden, or even to vote for President Klan Robe.
Yep. I think for a lot of them, it's not even about policy--they want the "system" burned down, they hate the "establishment", and so a disruptor like Trump is preferable to a "system guy" like Biden, even if they ostensibly are on the "Left".
As for the people who would actually be harmed by a Trump presidency, they give not a single shit, because they don't think it'll be them.
This is also why a number of such folks are very much "let's you and him fight" in political fights, to the point of even political suicide pacts like asking Democrats (especially candidates) to take absolutely extreme positions (that their constituents would hate) to prove how 'serious' they are. They know that accountability only accrues to Democrats if anything goes wrong and they do not care. And in the end they still win because they get the cool points and martyrdom of being a contrarian dissident voice.
I do truly believe that a number of people putatively on the Left are kinda post-turtled by the effective way the Biden/Harris admin works, and the demonstrable leftward movement of the Democratic Party as a whole. When you can see it really is Republicans (and chaos agents like Manchin and Sinema, herself a former Green) that are a problem, the anti-Democratic "lesser of two evils" narrative kinda collapses.
Yeah--it's not like things were going great over there before! The sad truth is Israel's government is beholden to a Far Right that just wants to keep expanding settlements in some crazy hope that Palestinians will give up on wanting their own state (or just leave to another country?), the Palestinians don't have any sort of legitimate leadership pushing for peaceful solutions and cooperation with Israeli moderates, so both sides manage to justify each other's worst instincts. It's a shit situation, and sucks worse that the U.S. gets tied into it when there's little we can do to help fix it. Biden's in a lousy situation but he seems to be at least trying to use what influence he does have to end the killing, and that results in the hard right blaming him for not letting Netanyahu crush the Arabs into dust, and the hard left blaming him for not stopping an independent country from doing what they've decided they're going to do.
Is it the distance from the left wing they want—or just a denunciation of the black folks? (Plus, in this case, the brown folks)…
It's always a good idea to go back and listen to that speech, because people lose sight of what Clinton actually said.
Great column, Stephen. Isn't it telling that Democratic politicians are scolded if they don't publicly distance themselves from the left wing, at least enough to suit the cons, but the same cons never scold republican politicians who never attempt to distance themselves from the right wing? It's like Democrats in Washington always have to reach out to the republicans in Washington, and compromise is that the reps get what they want, and the Dems get one or two of what they want.
Right? That drives me nuts!!
All these Republicans in total SHOCK over the things said by protesters at Columbia, but there were "good people on both sides" at Charlottesville?
Thanks!
That’s the MAGA/GQP/WCN Extremist Cult speaking. Unbelievable!
Do any of those columnists recognize that many of the Jewish persuasion also protest? That they think the Netanyahu government sucks? That they protest because they sympathize with the injustice done to the Gazans while not supporting Hamas? SMH.
If anything, Jewish people are overrepresented among pro-Palestinian protesters in the U.S. (compared to their share of the population). It's absurd to suggest that just because there's some anti-semites among the overall protesters that all the protesters agree with them.
I’ve seen the Jewish pro-Palestinian protesters compared to Log Cabin Republicans so there is a definite no true Scotsman fallacy occurring
Yeah, from the "Israel IS Judaism, so any criticism of Israel is criticism of all Jews" contingent, I could see that. But it's an inconvenient fact for that narrative that American Jews on the whole are more likely to be critical of Israeli policy than say Republicans.
Well here you go with, you know, nuance. Unfortunately the click-based MSM and its adjuncts don't play that. With a heaping helping of Murc's Law and here we go. Biden has to control every protest and no matter what he's also going to be subject to the Biden Paradox. No matter what choice is made it'll be the wrong one.
Whew!
I don't love how the college protests against the war in Gaza are being spun as antisemitism. To be sure some antisemites are piling on to the protests, but it's not as if it's the college students themselves in large numbers. Heck, they had a Seder at the Columbia U encampment. I understand why right wing shit stirrers would use these protests to voice their hate of the joos, but it's less understandable why the MSM seems laser focused on the shit stirrers and not on those with principled stances on the excesses of Bibi's wholly indiscriminate military operation.
Thank you for saying this. There is almost no direct and specific evidence that the protestors on campuses are violent or antisemitic. We need to stop repeating this like it is a fact, because it is not. Some on campuses say they do not "feel safe," but that is coming from both Muslim AND Jewish students, and not feeling safe is not the same as not being safe.
I read article after article claiming that there's horrific antisemitism, without citing *any specific evidence* of such, or the evidence turns out to be someone yelling "F*ck Israel." Not very couth, but anyone suggesting that sentiment is antisemitic is attempting to conflate Israel with the whole of the Jewish diaspora, which: no. People looking to cause trouble like to show up at protests; that does not mean the protest itself is invalid, or we should be focused on bad actors over the larger purpose of the protest.
There's video out there of a student walking into the Columbia protest wearing a shirt that says JEW on one side and ISRAEL on the other, yelling at the protestors, clearly intending to rile people up. They just ignore her.
Will, Boot, Stevens, Walsh and the rest of the conservatives who are selectively applying their idea of what the Sister Souljah thing was all about and what Biden needs to do to stick it to the 'progressives' in a way they approve also quote MLK 'content of their character' at every opportunity for the same reasons.
This situation is not at all like that one. While the conflict in Gaza is terrible, both in terms of the continued holding of hostages and Netanyahu's terrible (murderous and ineffective) response, much of what is happening in the campuses is not about that situation, but devolved into a generalized 'death to Israel' and terrorizing Jewish students, with no relationship to the actual situation, and obviously destroying the state of Israel, which is what is being called for, is not something Biden or anyone is going to legitimize (and again, this happened because Iran, with Putin's support, wanted to disrupt the real peace talks that were progressing with the Gulf states, which is why the West Bank is not involved and Jordan protected Israel from Iran).
Point is, there is nothing Biden can provide that would satisfy what the students are demanding other than the murder of millions of people, even stopping Netanyahu (which should be done) will not be enough (and my personal feeling is that this upheaval and division is exactly what Putin understood would help Trump, so I think Biden is smart in taking a more covert role, like he did in stopping a larger attack by Bibi on Iran).
Despite the hyperbole, Sister Souljah was never an actual threat, and racism in this country is a matter that still needs to be addressed in this country by leadership in this country.
Probably almost a total sidebar, but I kinda wonder if the reason I even know the name ‘Sister Souljah’ was that moment having become such a moment. I’m at best very patchily hip hop literate and would have been rather more so then, and actually don’t even remember being aware of either incident (what she said, what Clinton did), yet I know that name, think I vaguely had an idea she was sorta seen as pretty in your face. Betting it was mostly that thing floating around.
Reading on her now I’m thinking I will make a bit of time to listen and read some of her actual stuff later—it seems almost only fair to know a little more, when that one sentence is pretty much the only words I’ve ever heard from her directly, and it does seem she went on to say lots more that others have found worth a read.
She was pretty unknown at the time--I think the main reason the story got such play is that Clinton's partisans (who wanted to push an image of him as a "new" kind of Democrat--not the kind that lost the last three POTUS elections for being too "liberal") helped spread the story. The idea was "Clinton is not afraid of Jesse Jackson!" (although as Stephen notes, Clinton didn't denounce Jackson at all, he merely took exception to some rhetoric made by one of Jackson's previous guests). It was supposed to reassure moderates that Clinton would not be beholden to his party's Left.
It is so gd aggravating. You can be both pro Isreal and anti Netanyahu and pro Palestine and anti Hamas. My other observation is Hamas got exactly what it wanted. An entire generation of Palestinians now hate Israel with the passion of a thousand burning suns and will for the rest of their lives. It will never end.
In fact, if you think Israeli civilians and Palestinian civilians should live in peace and dignity, it'd be normal to oppose Netanhayu and Hamas together, as both are working to the detriment of both of those populations at the same time.
Yes.
Exactly! I would have hated for other countries to think Trump=America=all American citizens. Just as I am sure Netanyahu does not represent a large swath of Israelis. He’s done precious little to get the hostages back, for one thing. Hamas seems to be winning the public relations war here and that is terrifying.
Protestors can protest. Not sure what they’re accomplishing but it’s their right. When hatred and lawlessness comes in, that’s a problem. I suspect a lot of troublemakers are taking advantage of this opportunity.
The attack on Israel was WRONG. The response is overkill and also wrong. I think Netanyahu is also taking advantage of an opportunity.
The media latched on to the "Sister Souljah" moment because it was easy to symbolize, but Clinton had a lot more behind his moderate bona fides than that instance--he was pro-death penalty (a contrast with the Dems' most recent nominee), even flying back to Arkansas mid-campaign to watch an execution of a mentally retarded man, and on abortion he stressed "safe, legal and rare" (the "rare" part being a play for the center). He called for middle class tax cuts, spending cuts, welfare reform--all sorts of things to show he wasn't another Dukakis. And it didn't hurt that he had a southern accent--hard to look like an east coast liberal when you sound like Jerry Reed.
I wish the "Biden is genocide" and "Biden is in thrall to the pro-Hamas nuts" people would be forced to talk to each other and get their stories straight. Which is it, folks? Far as I can see Biden is pro-Israel, forcefully opposes anti-semitism full-stop, but also wants an end to the killing of civilians (Jewish and Arab). Seems pretty normal and moderate, even if you think there are some things he should be doing differently to meet those goals. But I think for a lot of people, left and right, they just hate Biden and will look at everything with a slant to make the facts fit their narratives.
What if, on the other hand, this is just a decent, reasonable guy, doing what he can within the constraints of his job to bring about a humane solution to this mess?
There's a nonzero number of these folks that are just looking for an excuse - any one will do - to not vote for Biden, or even to vote for President Klan Robe.
Yep. I think for a lot of them, it's not even about policy--they want the "system" burned down, they hate the "establishment", and so a disruptor like Trump is preferable to a "system guy" like Biden, even if they ostensibly are on the "Left".
As for the people who would actually be harmed by a Trump presidency, they give not a single shit, because they don't think it'll be them.
This is also why a number of such folks are very much "let's you and him fight" in political fights, to the point of even political suicide pacts like asking Democrats (especially candidates) to take absolutely extreme positions (that their constituents would hate) to prove how 'serious' they are. They know that accountability only accrues to Democrats if anything goes wrong and they do not care. And in the end they still win because they get the cool points and martyrdom of being a contrarian dissident voice.
I do truly believe that a number of people putatively on the Left are kinda post-turtled by the effective way the Biden/Harris admin works, and the demonstrable leftward movement of the Democratic Party as a whole. When you can see it really is Republicans (and chaos agents like Manchin and Sinema, herself a former Green) that are a problem, the anti-Democratic "lesser of two evils" narrative kinda collapses.
A mess that’s been around for centuries no less. And the anti Biden folks…I’m not sure who they think will do better.
Yeah--it's not like things were going great over there before! The sad truth is Israel's government is beholden to a Far Right that just wants to keep expanding settlements in some crazy hope that Palestinians will give up on wanting their own state (or just leave to another country?), the Palestinians don't have any sort of legitimate leadership pushing for peaceful solutions and cooperation with Israeli moderates, so both sides manage to justify each other's worst instincts. It's a shit situation, and sucks worse that the U.S. gets tied into it when there's little we can do to help fix it. Biden's in a lousy situation but he seems to be at least trying to use what influence he does have to end the killing, and that results in the hard right blaming him for not letting Netanyahu crush the Arabs into dust, and the hard left blaming him for not stopping an independent country from doing what they've decided they're going to do.
Don't be silly. Everyone knows Jared Kushner solved the Middle East.
D’oh! Totally forgot about puppet who wants to be a real boy!