I am SO FUCKING TIRED of people "in the heartland" shitting on everyone who doesn't live there, and doubly so when they're allegedly on our side!
Working "with the other side" in Congress, as if it's the fantasy 'Tip-n-Ronnie' daze doesn't work. Like the hoary old joke "This is like going on a blind date and deciding where to eat. You suggest Thai food, and they suggest tire rims, barbed wire and anthrax."
Both Dems and Repubs used to work together in Congress, but in the 1990s, Newt Gingrich decided that repubs shouldn't work with Dems. Ever since, for the most part, repubs have refused to work with Dems. However, Dems cling to the bipartisanship crap, and when in power, give up a lot of their power just to get a few repub votes, and time after time, the "reasonable" repubs end up voting with their party.
Dems in Congress need to understand that it's weak and stupid to give up their power for a few votes, especially if they don't need them, and if they end up not getting the votes anyway. Americans don't give a shit about bipartisanship, they care about laws and programs that work FOR them. Dems should stop with the weak sauce "work with Republicans" when they are in power. Instead, they should be strong with "We will do what we need to do for the benefit of all Americans. Republicans are welcome to work with us, but if they don't, we will do it alone."
Dems controlled Congress for most of the 1980s and "worked" with Reagan. They were rewarded for this by, as you point out, Gingrich pointedly refusing to do the same.
Also, Democrats and Republicans alike were less likely to feel pressure at the national level, so a Republican from Oregon could sign on to an environmental bill and a Democrat from Texas could support a big oil bill.
We have problems like every other place. Some of them are the same. Others are different.
I am tired of being treated like I'm not a "real" American by politicians and the media. Tired of being told my values aren't the same. Yeah, they're not the same as Jimmy Joe at the MAGA friendly Midwest diner, they're better.
I believe in welcoming the immigrant and the stranger. That's in the Bible. Yeah, I've read and still read the Bible. There is no American ethnicity. Anyone who believes in the principles of self-governance, democracy, individual inalienable rights can be an American.
I believe in loving your neighbor. That means helping folk when they need help. Helping sick people get well. Remembering that a prisoner is still a human being and ought to be treated like one. Feeding hungry people. Giving thirsty people water. Giving children safety and education and play and art classes and music.
Treating others like you want to be treated, even if you don't understand them. You don't "get" transpeople, well, you don't fucking have to. You just have to remember that last part: people. Treat people kindly, not tell them they're fucking wrong and they have to abide by your religious understanding or else.
I believe in fairness. Poor kids and rich kids ought to have the same educational opportunities. None of the current "separate but equal" bullshit. Women and minorities ought not to be dismissed from opportunities because they aren't white and don't have dicks. The rich need to pay more to lift up everyone else. That's in the Bible too.
Don't give a fuck if people speak the language they're most comfortable with. If we need to communicate, we can figure out a way. Their kids will pick up English. Maybe my kids will pick up Spanish or Farsi or Vietnamese.
I believe in giving folks the opportunity to do a day's work for a day's wage. That means having enough to eat, pay bills, pay rent or mortgages, and still have enough for modest vacations or time off.
I believe in giving folks freedom via a safety net, so they don't have to stay trapped in low paying jobs forever, but can afford to go back to school and college and university (which I believe should also be free) and better their station... or take a chance on a business or try and sell paintings or poems... what the fuck ever.
I want government to make folks' lives easier. I don't want to spend two weeks every year suddenly taking on the role of actuary and lawyer and figuring out my health insurance needs for the fucking year. I want to go to a doctor or hospital, show a card, and know that my bills will be taken care of and I want to pay for it with my taxes.
I want sensible regulation and licensing requirements that keeps guns away from the dopes we all know in our lives who should not under any circumstances have access to a gun.
I want the cops to be diplomats first. I want them supported with mental health specialists. I want kind and humane mental health facilities for people with chronic issues. I want drug addicts treated humanely. I want the homeless given homes and jobs they can do. I want more public transportation, more planned neighborhoods, more open and wild spaces and less strip malls and chain stores from sea to shining sea. I want clean air, clean water, clean soil. I want everyone to have access to food, fruits and vegetables. I want every house to have solar and batteries where it makes sense. I want everyone to pitch in when there is a disaster regardless of whether they're Republican or Democrat because we're all supposed to be goddamned Americans and have each other's backs when the shit hits the fan.
I want intelligent, compassionate, rational leaders with humanity and empathy. That shouldn't be that hard.
Slotkin probably needs to recognize that it's only fine for Republicans to bash the coasts (and in fact entire states and cities). She is not wise to Murc's Law, but she'll likely get turned out of office anyway as a lot of states like this turn redder and redder.
I'm very impressed with what Mamdani's doing so far. He's definitely doing better than my new upstate mayor who apparently has just inherited a budget crater that will result in an increase in the municipal taxes.
Because municipal governance is where dreams go to die.
Cribbing from Sandel: In a commencement address at Yale University in 1962 JFK argued that modern economic problems could best be resolved if people set aside their ideological convictions. "The central domestic issues of our time," he observed, "are more subtle and less simple" than the large moral and political issues that commanded the nation's attention in earlier days. "They relate not to basic clashes of philosophy o r ideology but t o ways and means of reaching common goals.... What is at stake in our economic decisions today is not some grand warfare of rival ideologies which will sweep the country with passion but the practical management of a modern economy." Kennedy urged the country "to face technical problems without ideological preconceptions" and to focus on "the sophisticated and technical questions involved in keeping a great economic machinery moving ahead."
My comment: Experience has shown that these sentiments of JFK are utterly incompatible with human nature and the ways in which self-government actually work in practice. It has led Democrats down a disastrous rabbit hole where the focus has been on using power rather than keeping power. The latter would involve campaign finance reform and statehood for DC and PR, reform of the Senate, reform of gerrymandering, etc. They always put theses things second, when they should be first. They have been complacent about the “self evident” wisdom of having respect for expertise and confidence in the scientific method and deference to well-founded authority. These things need to be constantly fought for.
Somewhere along the way Democrats lost the ability to talk like normal people (as opposed to focus grouped Beltway pundits) and they also lost the ability to appeal to a majority of non-college educated people. Those may be unrelated problems but the solution to both is similar—you start with getting over this insecurity about how the opposition Republicans represent something more real than you do, which the media and Republicans both promote and too many Democrats seem to concede. When we hear “patriotism” or “manly” or “Christian”, we usually hear Republicans claiming those things and when Democrats try to they seem to couch it almost apologetically (“yes we are promoting Christian values, BUT let me make clear we are not excluding Jews, etc” (note—if I hear a liberal talk about their relationship with Christ I assume they’re not callous about Jews or atheists); “yes we are manly tough guys, but femininity is great too” (we know that, in fact people assume we believe that too)).
This isn’t about moving more to the Left (as many DSA types assume we should) or to the Right (as Slotkin seems to think) but taking our core differences with the Republicans and arguing forcefully for them, drawing the stark contrast between those looking out for everyone and who are trying to improve our lives in every way, and the collection of idiots, extremist nutjobs and corrupt douchebags we are fighting against. Strength always appeals, weakness always fails.
No, the last thing that we need in a president is what we have now - an evil moron who is also going insane or has dementia or both, on top of his being an evil moron.
However, we don't need someone bashing the coasts and the Left, but she is right about getting shit done. We also need a president who can communicate what they get done, and how it's helping all Americans. We also need a president who will hold the fascists ruining the country accountable for their crimes.
In a sane world, Slotkin world be running as a moderate, centrist Republican. In THIS world, any politician with centrist, moderate views can't win a Republican primary, so here we are.
Slotkin is a hard pass for me. Bashing the coasts is so fucking stupid, where do you think the people and money are, moron? And she just won her Senate seat last year, go put in your time.
She is right about one thing though, most Americans just want shit to work. The problem is that they don't pay any attention to how or why things work.
Also SER, it's Altadena, not Alameda. Minor quibble from a California coastal (not) elite.
I've only ever lived in coastal states - NC, SC, and California, but have never been elite. At least, I don't consider myself an elite, which I equate with wealthy. Others may have a different definition. You are right about bashing the coasts, but it's seems to be the thing that Dem consultants like. Sigh.
Just started reading this post, and I have to make a comment already - when you lump the far left with the far right, you've lost me. One is filled with fascists who are out to destroy the Republic, and the other is filled with people who are out to make healthcare affordable and accessible to all Americans.
ETA: just to be clear - the far left is the group wanting healthcare for everyone and the far right want to destroy the Republic.
"far left" is a pretty nebulous label. It has also historically included anti-vax, Putin apologists, 9-11 "truthers" and neo-Marxists. A friend who's a long-time San Francisco resident calls this "conspiracy theory bingo". To be fair, I'm describing the FAR left (which Mamdani is nowhere near), whereas mass media is now well right of center by recent historical standards.
What 'far left' actually exists in this country is miniscule. Slotkin's internalizing the Republican definition of 'far left' is, which is anything that opposes MAGA autocracy.
The far left is not the far right, but it certainly has it's share of illiberal advocates which is part of the reason, IMO, they have a hard time getting a real foothold anywhere but large cities (and even that is tenuous).
Examples please! Especially examples who are equivalent to the ELECTED REPUBLICANS espousing radical right ideas.
comparing some rando with a few thousand followers on Bluesky to Republican Congress members who say that ICE should just gun down protesters in the street.
"but it certainly has it's share of illiberal advocates which is part of the reason, IMO, they have a hard time getting a real foothold anywhere but large cities (and even that is tenuous)."
I really need to hear about these "illiberal advocates" who are single-handedly making it so the radical right wins?
That is not what you said I said, even in this post. Direct quotes that back you up, otherwise you're just frothing and throwing shit up because you're mad people don't like Democrats. Sorry hon. That's not my fault. You can't do it though, lol, so I see no reason to talk with a raving looney who would rather eat shit on toast every meal for days than admit there's a problem Dems need to address if they want to win consistently.
Altadena, not Alameda, but point taken! It is bitterly bemusing how Reagan is remembered by the nostalgic. We'd never be in the place we are now, if there hadn't been people still under the spell of that smooth fraud voting against their interests for Trump.
Exactly. I recently came across a memoir / bio of RR’s daughter Patty Davis recalling her observations of living in the Ronald household. Might have been called “The Way I See It”
Anyways, I briefly read a few sections which was all I needed to see what was suspected. To be polite Ron and Nancy were not motivated by a desire to benefit other citizens but by self interest. Reagan held a grudge because “democrats caused a stop to his lucrative deal with GE to barnstorm America”. It was a gravey train of easy money and he held that grudge against dems for ever.
Not surprisingly she also revealed how her parents were crazy / cruel beyond belief but as I say I quickly perused the book while waiting for my wife to try on some clothes and did not buy it nor finish reading it.
I think there’s some truth in the critique, but it’s a bit overstated. Elissa Slotkin clearly represents one lane of the Democratic Party—more moderate, national-security focused, and very tuned to swing-state voters. That’s not “the party,” but it’s also not irrelevant, or easily dismissed as pandering, especially given she won in a Trump-leaning state.
I am SO FUCKING TIRED of people "in the heartland" shitting on everyone who doesn't live there, and doubly so when they're allegedly on our side!
Working "with the other side" in Congress, as if it's the fantasy 'Tip-n-Ronnie' daze doesn't work. Like the hoary old joke "This is like going on a blind date and deciding where to eat. You suggest Thai food, and they suggest tire rims, barbed wire and anthrax."
Has she ever MET Republicans in Congress?
Both Dems and Repubs used to work together in Congress, but in the 1990s, Newt Gingrich decided that repubs shouldn't work with Dems. Ever since, for the most part, repubs have refused to work with Dems. However, Dems cling to the bipartisanship crap, and when in power, give up a lot of their power just to get a few repub votes, and time after time, the "reasonable" repubs end up voting with their party.
Dems in Congress need to understand that it's weak and stupid to give up their power for a few votes, especially if they don't need them, and if they end up not getting the votes anyway. Americans don't give a shit about bipartisanship, they care about laws and programs that work FOR them. Dems should stop with the weak sauce "work with Republicans" when they are in power. Instead, they should be strong with "We will do what we need to do for the benefit of all Americans. Republicans are welcome to work with us, but if they don't, we will do it alone."
Dems controlled Congress for most of the 1980s and "worked" with Reagan. They were rewarded for this by, as you point out, Gingrich pointedly refusing to do the same.
Also, Democrats and Republicans alike were less likely to feel pressure at the national level, so a Republican from Oregon could sign on to an environmental bill and a Democrat from Texas could support a big oil bill.
I live in California.
We have problems like every other place. Some of them are the same. Others are different.
I am tired of being treated like I'm not a "real" American by politicians and the media. Tired of being told my values aren't the same. Yeah, they're not the same as Jimmy Joe at the MAGA friendly Midwest diner, they're better.
I believe in welcoming the immigrant and the stranger. That's in the Bible. Yeah, I've read and still read the Bible. There is no American ethnicity. Anyone who believes in the principles of self-governance, democracy, individual inalienable rights can be an American.
I believe in loving your neighbor. That means helping folk when they need help. Helping sick people get well. Remembering that a prisoner is still a human being and ought to be treated like one. Feeding hungry people. Giving thirsty people water. Giving children safety and education and play and art classes and music.
Treating others like you want to be treated, even if you don't understand them. You don't "get" transpeople, well, you don't fucking have to. You just have to remember that last part: people. Treat people kindly, not tell them they're fucking wrong and they have to abide by your religious understanding or else.
I believe in fairness. Poor kids and rich kids ought to have the same educational opportunities. None of the current "separate but equal" bullshit. Women and minorities ought not to be dismissed from opportunities because they aren't white and don't have dicks. The rich need to pay more to lift up everyone else. That's in the Bible too.
Don't give a fuck if people speak the language they're most comfortable with. If we need to communicate, we can figure out a way. Their kids will pick up English. Maybe my kids will pick up Spanish or Farsi or Vietnamese.
I believe in giving folks the opportunity to do a day's work for a day's wage. That means having enough to eat, pay bills, pay rent or mortgages, and still have enough for modest vacations or time off.
I believe in giving folks freedom via a safety net, so they don't have to stay trapped in low paying jobs forever, but can afford to go back to school and college and university (which I believe should also be free) and better their station... or take a chance on a business or try and sell paintings or poems... what the fuck ever.
I want government to make folks' lives easier. I don't want to spend two weeks every year suddenly taking on the role of actuary and lawyer and figuring out my health insurance needs for the fucking year. I want to go to a doctor or hospital, show a card, and know that my bills will be taken care of and I want to pay for it with my taxes.
I want sensible regulation and licensing requirements that keeps guns away from the dopes we all know in our lives who should not under any circumstances have access to a gun.
I want the cops to be diplomats first. I want them supported with mental health specialists. I want kind and humane mental health facilities for people with chronic issues. I want drug addicts treated humanely. I want the homeless given homes and jobs they can do. I want more public transportation, more planned neighborhoods, more open and wild spaces and less strip malls and chain stores from sea to shining sea. I want clean air, clean water, clean soil. I want everyone to have access to food, fruits and vegetables. I want every house to have solar and batteries where it makes sense. I want everyone to pitch in when there is a disaster regardless of whether they're Republican or Democrat because we're all supposed to be goddamned Americans and have each other's backs when the shit hits the fan.
I want intelligent, compassionate, rational leaders with humanity and empathy. That shouldn't be that hard.
Slotkin probably needs to recognize that it's only fine for Republicans to bash the coasts (and in fact entire states and cities). She is not wise to Murc's Law, but she'll likely get turned out of office anyway as a lot of states like this turn redder and redder.
I'm very impressed with what Mamdani's doing so far. He's definitely doing better than my new upstate mayor who apparently has just inherited a budget crater that will result in an increase in the municipal taxes.
Because municipal governance is where dreams go to die.
"No, it's not bunnies," is a deep cut. I wish it was!
Cribbing from Sandel: In a commencement address at Yale University in 1962 JFK argued that modern economic problems could best be resolved if people set aside their ideological convictions. "The central domestic issues of our time," he observed, "are more subtle and less simple" than the large moral and political issues that commanded the nation's attention in earlier days. "They relate not to basic clashes of philosophy o r ideology but t o ways and means of reaching common goals.... What is at stake in our economic decisions today is not some grand warfare of rival ideologies which will sweep the country with passion but the practical management of a modern economy." Kennedy urged the country "to face technical problems without ideological preconceptions" and to focus on "the sophisticated and technical questions involved in keeping a great economic machinery moving ahead."
My comment: Experience has shown that these sentiments of JFK are utterly incompatible with human nature and the ways in which self-government actually work in practice. It has led Democrats down a disastrous rabbit hole where the focus has been on using power rather than keeping power. The latter would involve campaign finance reform and statehood for DC and PR, reform of the Senate, reform of gerrymandering, etc. They always put theses things second, when they should be first. They have been complacent about the “self evident” wisdom of having respect for expertise and confidence in the scientific method and deference to well-founded authority. These things need to be constantly fought for.
Somewhere along the way Democrats lost the ability to talk like normal people (as opposed to focus grouped Beltway pundits) and they also lost the ability to appeal to a majority of non-college educated people. Those may be unrelated problems but the solution to both is similar—you start with getting over this insecurity about how the opposition Republicans represent something more real than you do, which the media and Republicans both promote and too many Democrats seem to concede. When we hear “patriotism” or “manly” or “Christian”, we usually hear Republicans claiming those things and when Democrats try to they seem to couch it almost apologetically (“yes we are promoting Christian values, BUT let me make clear we are not excluding Jews, etc” (note—if I hear a liberal talk about their relationship with Christ I assume they’re not callous about Jews or atheists); “yes we are manly tough guys, but femininity is great too” (we know that, in fact people assume we believe that too)).
This isn’t about moving more to the Left (as many DSA types assume we should) or to the Right (as Slotkin seems to think) but taking our core differences with the Republicans and arguing forcefully for them, drawing the stark contrast between those looking out for everyone and who are trying to improve our lives in every way, and the collection of idiots, extremist nutjobs and corrupt douchebags we are fighting against. Strength always appeals, weakness always fails.
She’s a big disappointment. The last thing we need in a president.
No, the last thing that we need in a president is what we have now - an evil moron who is also going insane or has dementia or both, on top of his being an evil moron.
However, we don't need someone bashing the coasts and the Left, but she is right about getting shit done. We also need a president who can communicate what they get done, and how it's helping all Americans. We also need a president who will hold the fascists ruining the country accountable for their crimes.
In a sane world, Slotkin world be running as a moderate, centrist Republican. In THIS world, any politician with centrist, moderate views can't win a Republican primary, so here we are.
I regret doing phone banks for her. She's such a disappointment.
Don't be. She is still 1000x better than her opponent
Slotkin is a hard pass for me. Bashing the coasts is so fucking stupid, where do you think the people and money are, moron? And she just won her Senate seat last year, go put in your time.
She is right about one thing though, most Americans just want shit to work. The problem is that they don't pay any attention to how or why things work.
Also SER, it's Altadena, not Alameda. Minor quibble from a California coastal (not) elite.
I've only ever lived in coastal states - NC, SC, and California, but have never been elite. At least, I don't consider myself an elite, which I equate with wealthy. Others may have a different definition. You are right about bashing the coasts, but it's seems to be the thing that Dem consultants like. Sigh.
Just started reading this post, and I have to make a comment already - when you lump the far left with the far right, you've lost me. One is filled with fascists who are out to destroy the Republic, and the other is filled with people who are out to make healthcare affordable and accessible to all Americans.
ETA: just to be clear - the far left is the group wanting healthcare for everyone and the far right want to destroy the Republic.
"far left" is a pretty nebulous label. It has also historically included anti-vax, Putin apologists, 9-11 "truthers" and neo-Marxists. A friend who's a long-time San Francisco resident calls this "conspiracy theory bingo". To be fair, I'm describing the FAR left (which Mamdani is nowhere near), whereas mass media is now well right of center by recent historical standards.
What 'far left' actually exists in this country is miniscule. Slotkin's internalizing the Republican definition of 'far left' is, which is anything that opposes MAGA autocracy.
Well said and quite reasonable. Thanks for speaking up.
The far left is not the far right, but it certainly has it's share of illiberal advocates which is part of the reason, IMO, they have a hard time getting a real foothold anywhere but large cities (and even that is tenuous).
Examples please! Especially examples who are equivalent to the ELECTED REPUBLICANS espousing radical right ideas.
comparing some rando with a few thousand followers on Bluesky to Republican Congress members who say that ICE should just gun down protesters in the street.
Where did I say any of that, please? Direct quotes.
"but it certainly has it's share of illiberal advocates which is part of the reason, IMO, they have a hard time getting a real foothold anywhere but large cities (and even that is tenuous)."
I really need to hear about these "illiberal advocates" who are single-handedly making it so the radical right wins?
That is not what you said I said, even in this post. Direct quotes that back you up, otherwise you're just frothing and throwing shit up because you're mad people don't like Democrats. Sorry hon. That's not my fault. You can't do it though, lol, so I see no reason to talk with a raving looney who would rather eat shit on toast every meal for days than admit there's a problem Dems need to address if they want to win consistently.
Bye, sweetie. Don't forget your thorazine.
Altadena, not Alameda, but point taken! It is bitterly bemusing how Reagan is remembered by the nostalgic. We'd never be in the place we are now, if there hadn't been people still under the spell of that smooth fraud voting against their interests for Trump.
Exactly. I recently came across a memoir / bio of RR’s daughter Patty Davis recalling her observations of living in the Ronald household. Might have been called “The Way I See It”
Anyways, I briefly read a few sections which was all I needed to see what was suspected. To be polite Ron and Nancy were not motivated by a desire to benefit other citizens but by self interest. Reagan held a grudge because “democrats caused a stop to his lucrative deal with GE to barnstorm America”. It was a gravey train of easy money and he held that grudge against dems for ever.
Not surprisingly she also revealed how her parents were crazy / cruel beyond belief but as I say I quickly perused the book while waiting for my wife to try on some clothes and did not buy it nor finish reading it.
I think there’s some truth in the critique, but it’s a bit overstated. Elissa Slotkin clearly represents one lane of the Democratic Party—more moderate, national-security focused, and very tuned to swing-state voters. That’s not “the party,” but it’s also not irrelevant, or easily dismissed as pandering, especially given she won in a Trump-leaning state.