It’s like they have a cookie cutter for these guys now. There’s a local mayor who’s caught up in a corrupt boondoggle who is “always fighting”, goes on social media and trolls his detractors like a kid would do. Even has the porky look and face hair.
The treatment of the Hot Lips character is my major (heh) reason why "M*A*S*H" is on my list of movies I loved at first but then liked less each time I watched them, until I eventually I got to, "WTF was I thinking?"
The Kellerman and Fletcher analogies don’t work when you realize that the overriding theme of both films is anti-authoritarianism. Maybe problematic that the authors wrote women in the authoritarian roles, but still, come on. Of course Vance is now in that role. So this piece is mostly a big “miss”. Sorry.
But there is a reason the women were written into the authoritarian roles, and Vance attempts to plug into the “childless women are trying to dominate us” narrative. There is a direct line from those films/characters to “childless cat ladies.”
Okay *maybe*, but it still doesn’t click with me. Vance seems to be going after the *liberal* “cat lady” characters like Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore Show), Maude (Bea Arthur), or Diane Chambers (Cheers), not conservative authoritarians like Houlihan and Ratched and yes Nuns.
That’s probably true to a degree, but that’s why it backfired: Mary, Maude, and even Diane are likeable — I doubt Vance could even pick up the Carla Tortelli vote bc he’s such a jerk. MAGA, esp Trump, wants to be the mavericks taking on the “nanny state” but Vance has failed. He is too much like Frank Burns.
Well, Upton I guess is going to take one for the team. She is a woman, after all, and women must know their place in that unreconstructed party.
Also I must note, Jizzy Divan was all in his feels about the couch fucking joke but I guess that's okay when the shoe is on the other foot. He's after all here to "have fun" and "say stupid things" except when they go against him.
I hope that people pour it on for this nasty hypocrite and make him synonymous with "joke." May this censorious, hypocritical scold find ridicule wherever he goes.
The prime directive in Trumpistan is to never ever admit fault or apologize so J. Divans is just dutifully following that model. He is every bully from an 80s movie. I half expect him to show up at the debate with Walz with a sweater tied around his neck.
It’d be nice if the Trump supporter he insulted came out and endorsed Harris but of course that would be a bridge too far. Megyn Kelly fell in line didn’t she? But it’s not a cult, right?
They think that it's a sign of weakness, but it's the opposite. It's weak to never admit to fault or to apologize. It's sad, really, but I don't feel sorry for them.
A good question for Vance, if a journalist ever spoke with him: "So you just said we all need to laugh at ourselves. Sounds good! Can you tell a joke where you're laughing at Donald Trump? Can you tell one right now? Hey, why are you sweating so much?"
Thank you for pointing out that Vance wasn't laughing at himself, he was laughing at someone else, actually at two others - Upton and Harris. His "joke" wasn't funny, or accurate, as VP Harris aced the interview. Yes, he posted it before the interview aired, but it's dumb to insist that Harris is an airhead, because that will lower expectations for the debate. Dump and Vance aren't very strategic, and both are vile people. Vance was trying to wiggle out of his cruelty by claiming that people need to laugh at themselves, but there isn't any evidence that he's laughed at himself, he's only laughed at others. Basically, he was lecturing Upton and Harris to laugh at themselves by laughing at his "joke" at their expense.
It also draws out something about Trump--can you think of another politician, of either party, who is so completely unable to make a joke at their own expense? He absolutely cannot, and yet pretty much every other major politician, of either party, can do so with ease. I recall Schwartzenegger making a joke at the start of his 2004 GOP Convention address where he said someone told him he's as good a governor as he was an actor, and he said "what a cheap shot". It was disarming! Even if you didn't like Arnold you felt like he could at least laugh at himself.
In Trump's case, it definitely comes from a place of insecurity. When I was a lot younger, and other kids made fun of me (I was an easy target!) I just seethed quietly, humiliated and hurt. Then I learned if you can make a joke about yourself, it disarms the others--people who were just having fun see that you can be in on the joke and they like you for it, and those who were malicious just don't have a target anymore, because you're right up in there.
Trump never learned it, he's too wrapped up in his own demons.
this reminder of the punch-down perspective now has me wary of every time a person is referred to as a joke. most recent example i encountered: some trog sub-commenting in an AOC fundraising thread "she's a joke"
Thank you for the breakdown of both MASH and the Newsroom (I've never seen Cuckoo's Nest) Those shows (along with The West Wing) are perpetually held up as exemplars of liberal virtues while simultaneously being more than a little bit problematic when it comes to their depictions of women and outright misogyny. I am a buzzkill when I point out to my friends, for instance, that The West Wing is deeply sexist. It saddens me when folks who claim the left cannot see it. So I appreciate the validation!
MASH is the only one that I've seen, and I admit that I didn't think about it much back in the day, when it first aired. The later episodes are not as sexist as the earlier ones; in fact, the early episodes haven't aged well at all.
All of Nicholson's iconic characters from that period lash out at women — they're weak men whose struggle against a society they can't navigate is (thanks to Nicholson's persona and skill) recognizable and meaningful, especially for the audiences of the time.
I'm not excusing how onscreen Nicholson treats women; I'm just contextualizing it: it's an artifact of a more openly misogynistic era when "the problems of the average man" were considered to be everyone's problems, and those problems included their struggles with women (particularly when those women have authority, as in "Cuckoo's Nest"). It was important to his male fans that he enact their anger and helplessness at a world that seemed impossible to navigate, and "women" as an opposing or constraining force were part of that mythos, unfortunately.
This original version of Nicholson reached its apotheosis at the hands of Stanley Kubrick, who brilliantly depicted 70s-Nicholson finally undone and destroyed by his hatred and fear of women. (He returned to this kind of characterization in later work like "As Good As it Gets" but post-"Shining" Nicholson had lost his particular "everyman" meaning that — as this post discusses — was irredeemably bound up in misogyny.)
Think of that scene in "Five Easy Pieces" where he lashes out at the waitress--at the time, meant to be seen as a rebel fighting against rules. Now, it's seen as a rich kid treating a working woman like shit.
Several things about what makes something “funny”.
Picking on people for their disabilities or looks isn’t funny unless it’s YOU that you’re picking on. Play it confidently or it’s just sad.
Yes AND is key to finding the humor without denigrating the other while still working the joke.
Not all smart people are funny but all funny people are usually smart.
Not saying Vance is dumb but he’s not emotionally intelligent enough to make the joke land.
He’s just a tragic character one who, dare I ponder, will probably not stay in office. He’s shown himself to just be too abhorrent to be effective because he doesn’t care what his constituents want. It’s clear he’s just huffing his own farts and couldn’t give a green goddamn about anything else.
Yep. Peter Thiel funded his candidacy in Ohio. Tim Ryan, is an Ohio guy who has spent his career helping Ohioans. JD and his rich pal flooded the airways and convinced people that he was their guy. He won’t do a thing to help them, and now that they can see who he really is, I predict he’ll be out of office at the next election.
It’s like they have a cookie cutter for these guys now. There’s a local mayor who’s caught up in a corrupt boondoggle who is “always fighting”, goes on social media and trolls his detractors like a kid would do. Even has the porky look and face hair.
The treatment of the Hot Lips character is my major (heh) reason why "M*A*S*H" is on my list of movies I loved at first but then liked less each time I watched them, until I eventually I got to, "WTF was I thinking?"
To the graveyard of big-mouth whiny ass outgrown frat boys!😒😩😫🤡👻
The Kellerman and Fletcher analogies don’t work when you realize that the overriding theme of both films is anti-authoritarianism. Maybe problematic that the authors wrote women in the authoritarian roles, but still, come on. Of course Vance is now in that role. So this piece is mostly a big “miss”. Sorry.
But there is a reason the women were written into the authoritarian roles, and Vance attempts to plug into the “childless women are trying to dominate us” narrative. There is a direct line from those films/characters to “childless cat ladies.”
Okay *maybe*, but it still doesn’t click with me. Vance seems to be going after the *liberal* “cat lady” characters like Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore Show), Maude (Bea Arthur), or Diane Chambers (Cheers), not conservative authoritarians like Houlihan and Ratched and yes Nuns.
That’s probably true to a degree, but that’s why it backfired: Mary, Maude, and even Diane are likeable — I doubt Vance could even pick up the Carla Tortelli vote bc he’s such a jerk. MAGA, esp Trump, wants to be the mavericks taking on the “nanny state” but Vance has failed. He is too much like Frank Burns.
Oh, he’s not going after the Carlas, he’s going after the *men* who resent those likable but “unobtainable” independent women. But ok.
Ah yeah. “I was just kidding. Can’t ya take a joke?” The get-out-of-jail-free card for assholes.
Well, Upton I guess is going to take one for the team. She is a woman, after all, and women must know their place in that unreconstructed party.
Also I must note, Jizzy Divan was all in his feels about the couch fucking joke but I guess that's okay when the shoe is on the other foot. He's after all here to "have fun" and "say stupid things" except when they go against him.
I hope that people pour it on for this nasty hypocrite and make him synonymous with "joke." May this censorious, hypocritical scold find ridicule wherever he goes.
*squeak squeak squeak*
The prime directive in Trumpistan is to never ever admit fault or apologize so J. Divans is just dutifully following that model. He is every bully from an 80s movie. I half expect him to show up at the debate with Walz with a sweater tied around his neck.
It’d be nice if the Trump supporter he insulted came out and endorsed Harris but of course that would be a bridge too far. Megyn Kelly fell in line didn’t she? But it’s not a cult, right?
They think that it's a sign of weakness, but it's the opposite. It's weak to never admit to fault or to apologize. It's sad, really, but I don't feel sorry for them.
Toxic masculinity will kill us all.
A good question for Vance, if a journalist ever spoke with him: "So you just said we all need to laugh at ourselves. Sounds good! Can you tell a joke where you're laughing at Donald Trump? Can you tell one right now? Hey, why are you sweating so much?"
Thank you for pointing out that Vance wasn't laughing at himself, he was laughing at someone else, actually at two others - Upton and Harris. His "joke" wasn't funny, or accurate, as VP Harris aced the interview. Yes, he posted it before the interview aired, but it's dumb to insist that Harris is an airhead, because that will lower expectations for the debate. Dump and Vance aren't very strategic, and both are vile people. Vance was trying to wiggle out of his cruelty by claiming that people need to laugh at themselves, but there isn't any evidence that he's laughed at himself, he's only laughed at others. Basically, he was lecturing Upton and Harris to laugh at themselves by laughing at his "joke" at their expense.
It also draws out something about Trump--can you think of another politician, of either party, who is so completely unable to make a joke at their own expense? He absolutely cannot, and yet pretty much every other major politician, of either party, can do so with ease. I recall Schwartzenegger making a joke at the start of his 2004 GOP Convention address where he said someone told him he's as good a governor as he was an actor, and he said "what a cheap shot". It was disarming! Even if you didn't like Arnold you felt like he could at least laugh at himself.
In Trump's case, it definitely comes from a place of insecurity. When I was a lot younger, and other kids made fun of me (I was an easy target!) I just seethed quietly, humiliated and hurt. Then I learned if you can make a joke about yourself, it disarms the others--people who were just having fun see that you can be in on the joke and they like you for it, and those who were malicious just don't have a target anymore, because you're right up in there.
Trump never learned it, he's too wrapped up in his own demons.
I couldn't recognize how baked in it was, either! Conscience raising is a life-long learning experience! I welcome it!
Thanks, Stephen 💞👏
this! every day!
this reminder of the punch-down perspective now has me wary of every time a person is referred to as a joke. most recent example i encountered: some trog sub-commenting in an AOC fundraising thread "she's a joke"
but that guy's punching up, right? she's a commie overlord! /s
Watching JD Vance try to fist bump a 50+ year old woman at a union event is HILARIOUS. He had no idea what to do with his hands after that: https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1830720659971784928?t=BjJjGr9dJCfxTZseamSWoA&s=19
Hilarious!
The empathetic part of me feels badly for him. The justice part of me thinks it's no more than he deserves.
Thank you for the breakdown of both MASH and the Newsroom (I've never seen Cuckoo's Nest) Those shows (along with The West Wing) are perpetually held up as exemplars of liberal virtues while simultaneously being more than a little bit problematic when it comes to their depictions of women and outright misogyny. I am a buzzkill when I point out to my friends, for instance, that The West Wing is deeply sexist. It saddens me when folks who claim the left cannot see it. So I appreciate the validation!
MASH is the only one that I've seen, and I admit that I didn't think about it much back in the day, when it first aired. The later episodes are not as sexist as the earlier ones; in fact, the early episodes haven't aged well at all.
All of Nicholson's iconic characters from that period lash out at women — they're weak men whose struggle against a society they can't navigate is (thanks to Nicholson's persona and skill) recognizable and meaningful, especially for the audiences of the time.
I'm not excusing how onscreen Nicholson treats women; I'm just contextualizing it: it's an artifact of a more openly misogynistic era when "the problems of the average man" were considered to be everyone's problems, and those problems included their struggles with women (particularly when those women have authority, as in "Cuckoo's Nest"). It was important to his male fans that he enact their anger and helplessness at a world that seemed impossible to navigate, and "women" as an opposing or constraining force were part of that mythos, unfortunately.
This original version of Nicholson reached its apotheosis at the hands of Stanley Kubrick, who brilliantly depicted 70s-Nicholson finally undone and destroyed by his hatred and fear of women. (He returned to this kind of characterization in later work like "As Good As it Gets" but post-"Shining" Nicholson had lost his particular "everyman" meaning that — as this post discusses — was irredeemably bound up in misogyny.)
great miniwriteup. we're soaking in it!
Think of that scene in "Five Easy Pieces" where he lashes out at the waitress--at the time, meant to be seen as a rebel fighting against rules. Now, it's seen as a rich kid treating a working woman like shit.
Several things about what makes something “funny”.
Picking on people for their disabilities or looks isn’t funny unless it’s YOU that you’re picking on. Play it confidently or it’s just sad.
Yes AND is key to finding the humor without denigrating the other while still working the joke.
Not all smart people are funny but all funny people are usually smart.
Not saying Vance is dumb but he’s not emotionally intelligent enough to make the joke land.
He’s just a tragic character one who, dare I ponder, will probably not stay in office. He’s shown himself to just be too abhorrent to be effective because he doesn’t care what his constituents want. It’s clear he’s just huffing his own farts and couldn’t give a green goddamn about anything else.
Yep. Peter Thiel funded his candidacy in Ohio. Tim Ryan, is an Ohio guy who has spent his career helping Ohioans. JD and his rich pal flooded the airways and convinced people that he was their guy. He won’t do a thing to help them, and now that they can see who he really is, I predict he’ll be out of office at the next election.
That misogynistic dweeb will always be Couch-Fucker to me.