This is a really good point. Is a domestic abuse victim close-minded for steering clear of people who say "there's no such thing" etc.? No, they are taking care of themselves. Good work PTG.
Democrats obviously must win over more people who previously haven’t voted and even those who voted for Trump, but I think contra Jain, we have a BETTER chance of winning them over by NOT trying to be nice to them. They don’t respect nice! They see nice as weakness when it’s coming from those they openly scorn! Instead just focus on taking care of yourselves and those you care about, try to run blue states/cities better (making them a more attractive place to live, eg with more abundant housing, would appeal more to those on the fence and better fir long term politics anyway) and go on mocking Trump and his dipshits that he keeps ripping off. Show strength and even many MAGAs will want to be among the strong, and will abandon MAGA and maybe become the sort of people you’ll want to associate with.
Kissing their butts will just remind them why they despise you in the first place.
Yep. I'm not dealing with my husband's family right now, because they let me know where they stand, and I cannot pretend I don't. I will be cordial, but I ain't showing up for holidays, I'm not doing one thing extra, and I'm not wasting my energy on educating them.
“That’s the problem with the token liberals on Fox News. Jessica Tarlov represents the misguided liberal daughter who receives rhetorical swirlies from MAGA ‘brothers’ Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld.”
Stephen, you just perfectly described my lifelong experience with my older and younger brother.
"I want to be a cruel and horrible person and give in to all of my worst impulses and I want you to still treat me like I'm a decent and good human being."
Sorry. Doesn't work that way. To quote their supposed favorite book at them: what fellowship has Christ with Belial?
The true MAGA goal is domination. To the extent there are persuadable voters, it’s probably those who had concern about the economy. Boy. Aren’t they surprised.
Living in an extremely red state I am cordial to all, even friendly and helpful. But when they inevitably make comments, racist, sexist, etc, I don’t stay silent. I’m kind but bring up the teachings of Jesus. What you don’t mention in this article is that they will always shun a person not perceived to be in their group. It makes it impossible to actually have a conversation about anything but the weather. I didn’t really leave these people or relationships, they left me, which is fine, even good for my emotional well being. I’ll continue to be kind but we’ve crossed a rubicon in this country and it’s up to them to come to sanity and decide to be good humans.
I'm sure I probably have some friends who are MAGA, but I admit I don't ask.
I do keep an eye out for bigotry among those I know. It's like, "fine," you don't think taxes should be a thing, whatever. That's a political difference. But support for ethnic cleansing, support for getting rid of trans people, I draw the line.
Someone had to draw a line somewhere for me to be able to get my rights. Hell, some people in the Democratic Party drew a line in 1964 which led to my full enfranchisement, and it was an incredible political cost. BUt the moral boon was great.
thanks, Stephen, for bringing some nuance to this subject. I see a lot fewer social media comments these days saying we should continue to try to persuade MAGAS online. they believe these people (the real cult, not the "I voted for cheap eggs" ones) are available to persuade. I always asked if they had every succeeded, and nobody said yes. I'm all for going after the persuadable egg-price voters but believe wasting further energy and goodwill on people who think we're cannibals, pedophiles, Marxists, etc etc is squandering resources we can't afford to waste.
My experience with Trumper relatives is that what they want is to get their jollies by insulting you and then rip you off. I maintained periodic contact with my late husband's cousin while coordinating his still-living mother's care. The cousin would behave for a while, then make a remark obviously designed to get a rise out of me, which I refused to do, ending the conversation and telling her I would not call her again until she could treat me with respect. Months later, she'd call back full of false friendship and sympathy. Of course, she did nothing. but whine. After my husband's mother died, the cousin called a month later, saying my in-law had promised her $50,000.00. No paperwork and a lie that my husband was aware of this (as she dated the conversation to the height of the COVID lockdown). I told her if I heard from her again, she'd be hearing from my lawyer, and then blocked her phone number. These people are irredeemable.
Wow. That so closely mirrors a situation in my own extended family. My ex-sister in law, whose name I have not allowed in my presence since my husband’s death 10 years ago, has just popped back up, trying to ingratiate herself with a few of us. In a spate of messages to each other, we’ve all justifiably concluded yeah, she’s trying to grift family members for $$$ again. Yes, of course she’s a Trumper.
This is excellent advice for organizers. When I did that work it was a huge part of it to remember: you don’t have to be buddies with these people. You just have to talk to them and create a trust over some shared principles in order to defeat the Big Bad.
This is the part that rings totally true to me-" They don’t want to reach consensus. They want to subdue."
For the true MAGA, there is no reaching them with logic or policy points, so don't waste your time or mental energy. But there are plenty of others out there who can be reached, if only to get them off their asses to vote in their own self interest. And (as Cateck says) there are lots of winning issues that real leaders in the Democratic party should be putting forth. People should be told that the government can help them, not just put its boot on their neck.
I disagree with liberals who summarily condemn all Trump 2024 voters as irredeemable.
Oh hi, that would be me!
The more than 77 million Trump 2024 voters are a political reality we can’t ignore
YES WE CAN! We need to get the 90 million eligible voters who sat out 24 to get off their asses and vote. And to do that, we need a vision of the future that people can get excited for. Medicare for all, UBI, guaranteed housing for everybody, free education all the way through, actual gun control, these are things people want, yet I don't hear anybody in Dem leadership talking about them. And to the fucking stupid question "how do we pay for all that" I say TAX THE RICH! They want to go back to the 1950's? We'll give them the 50's tax rates. After all, that is exactly how we got to be such a great country until Reagan came along and started fucking everything up.
I see your point, yet one of the problems is a lot of Americans are very happy to self-own if you tell them that some minority they hate is benefiting from their "hard-earned tax dollars." This is part of the rise in sadopopulism in the United States.
And part of why Reagan was able to fuck things up was to convince a lot of Americans that Black people were all on welfare and getting to soak up tax dollars to eat lobster and drive a Cadillac.
Great comment! As for paying for it - TAX THE RICH is good, but we can also ask how tr*mp can afford to redecorate the WH into an image of one of his trash palaces, but we can't feed hungry children. We can also ask that about his concentration camps and his occupying American cities. It's all about priorities - what we truly value should be paid for.
Yep. the 'sit-outs', as infuriating as they are, aren't ideologically glued to the MAGA cult. IOW, no deprogramming necessary. They will suffer for their naval-gazing apathy which will wake them the fuck up because they will have NO CHOICE. And you could 'convert' 20 of them for every MAGA you might convert. The effort to outcome ratio is SO much greater when reaching out to the sit-outs
Also part of the problem are the single issue purity ponies. Thise would be the ones who couldn't vote for Harris because she didn't check all the boxes. Particularly infuriating to me are these Arab Americans who wouldn’t vote for "Genocide Joe" or "Killer Kamala". How is the Trump administration working out for Gaza?
This is a really good point. Is a domestic abuse victim close-minded for steering clear of people who say "there's no such thing" etc.? No, they are taking care of themselves. Good work PTG.
And former MAGAs likely won’t come out and say “I used to be MAGA.” Instead they’ll pretend they never were one.
Which is fine by me.
Democrats obviously must win over more people who previously haven’t voted and even those who voted for Trump, but I think contra Jain, we have a BETTER chance of winning them over by NOT trying to be nice to them. They don’t respect nice! They see nice as weakness when it’s coming from those they openly scorn! Instead just focus on taking care of yourselves and those you care about, try to run blue states/cities better (making them a more attractive place to live, eg with more abundant housing, would appeal more to those on the fence and better fir long term politics anyway) and go on mocking Trump and his dipshits that he keeps ripping off. Show strength and even many MAGAs will want to be among the strong, and will abandon MAGA and maybe become the sort of people you’ll want to associate with.
Kissing their butts will just remind them why they despise you in the first place.
They don't only revel in their cruelty, they demand we love them for it. This is the classic sign of an abusive relationship.
Fuck that noise...I really don't need such toxic people in my life, and if I'm a 'bad liberal' for that, well fuck the person telling me that too.
“But nobody hates Trump voters more than young liberals do (this is less of a thing with old Democrats).”
1. While my precise age is no one's business--I can assure the writer that some of us not-so-young liberals hate them too TYVM
2. And we're only returning the favor--if this writer thinks Trump voters don't hate us, he needs to get out more
3. OFFS...
Yep. I'm not dealing with my husband's family right now, because they let me know where they stand, and I cannot pretend I don't. I will be cordial, but I ain't showing up for holidays, I'm not doing one thing extra, and I'm not wasting my energy on educating them.
“That’s the problem with the token liberals on Fox News. Jessica Tarlov represents the misguided liberal daughter who receives rhetorical swirlies from MAGA ‘brothers’ Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld.”
Stephen, you just perfectly described my lifelong experience with my older and younger brother.
"I want to be a cruel and horrible person and give in to all of my worst impulses and I want you to still treat me like I'm a decent and good human being."
Sorry. Doesn't work that way. To quote their supposed favorite book at them: what fellowship has Christ with Belial?
The true MAGA goal is domination. To the extent there are persuadable voters, it’s probably those who had concern about the economy. Boy. Aren’t they surprised.
Living in an extremely red state I am cordial to all, even friendly and helpful. But when they inevitably make comments, racist, sexist, etc, I don’t stay silent. I’m kind but bring up the teachings of Jesus. What you don’t mention in this article is that they will always shun a person not perceived to be in their group. It makes it impossible to actually have a conversation about anything but the weather. I didn’t really leave these people or relationships, they left me, which is fine, even good for my emotional well being. I’ll continue to be kind but we’ve crossed a rubicon in this country and it’s up to them to come to sanity and decide to be good humans.
I'm sure I probably have some friends who are MAGA, but I admit I don't ask.
I do keep an eye out for bigotry among those I know. It's like, "fine," you don't think taxes should be a thing, whatever. That's a political difference. But support for ethnic cleansing, support for getting rid of trans people, I draw the line.
Someone had to draw a line somewhere for me to be able to get my rights. Hell, some people in the Democratic Party drew a line in 1964 which led to my full enfranchisement, and it was an incredible political cost. BUt the moral boon was great.
thanks, Stephen, for bringing some nuance to this subject. I see a lot fewer social media comments these days saying we should continue to try to persuade MAGAS online. they believe these people (the real cult, not the "I voted for cheap eggs" ones) are available to persuade. I always asked if they had every succeeded, and nobody said yes. I'm all for going after the persuadable egg-price voters but believe wasting further energy and goodwill on people who think we're cannibals, pedophiles, Marxists, etc etc is squandering resources we can't afford to waste.
My experience with Trumper relatives is that what they want is to get their jollies by insulting you and then rip you off. I maintained periodic contact with my late husband's cousin while coordinating his still-living mother's care. The cousin would behave for a while, then make a remark obviously designed to get a rise out of me, which I refused to do, ending the conversation and telling her I would not call her again until she could treat me with respect. Months later, she'd call back full of false friendship and sympathy. Of course, she did nothing. but whine. After my husband's mother died, the cousin called a month later, saying my in-law had promised her $50,000.00. No paperwork and a lie that my husband was aware of this (as she dated the conversation to the height of the COVID lockdown). I told her if I heard from her again, she'd be hearing from my lawyer, and then blocked her phone number. These people are irredeemable.
Wow. That so closely mirrors a situation in my own extended family. My ex-sister in law, whose name I have not allowed in my presence since my husband’s death 10 years ago, has just popped back up, trying to ingratiate herself with a few of us. In a spate of messages to each other, we’ve all justifiably concluded yeah, she’s trying to grift family members for $$$ again. Yes, of course she’s a Trumper.
This is excellent advice for organizers. When I did that work it was a huge part of it to remember: you don’t have to be buddies with these people. You just have to talk to them and create a trust over some shared principles in order to defeat the Big Bad.
Yet another great column!
This is the part that rings totally true to me-" They don’t want to reach consensus. They want to subdue."
For the true MAGA, there is no reaching them with logic or policy points, so don't waste your time or mental energy. But there are plenty of others out there who can be reached, if only to get them off their asses to vote in their own self interest. And (as Cateck says) there are lots of winning issues that real leaders in the Democratic party should be putting forth. People should be told that the government can help them, not just put its boot on their neck.
I disagree with liberals who summarily condemn all Trump 2024 voters as irredeemable.
Oh hi, that would be me!
The more than 77 million Trump 2024 voters are a political reality we can’t ignore
YES WE CAN! We need to get the 90 million eligible voters who sat out 24 to get off their asses and vote. And to do that, we need a vision of the future that people can get excited for. Medicare for all, UBI, guaranteed housing for everybody, free education all the way through, actual gun control, these are things people want, yet I don't hear anybody in Dem leadership talking about them. And to the fucking stupid question "how do we pay for all that" I say TAX THE RICH! They want to go back to the 1950's? We'll give them the 50's tax rates. After all, that is exactly how we got to be such a great country until Reagan came along and started fucking everything up.
I see your point, yet one of the problems is a lot of Americans are very happy to self-own if you tell them that some minority they hate is benefiting from their "hard-earned tax dollars." This is part of the rise in sadopopulism in the United States.
And part of why Reagan was able to fuck things up was to convince a lot of Americans that Black people were all on welfare and getting to soak up tax dollars to eat lobster and drive a Cadillac.
That's our media pushing propaganda, I have no idea on how to fix that mess. They are complicit.
Great comment! As for paying for it - TAX THE RICH is good, but we can also ask how tr*mp can afford to redecorate the WH into an image of one of his trash palaces, but we can't feed hungry children. We can also ask that about his concentration camps and his occupying American cities. It's all about priorities - what we truly value should be paid for.
Yep. the 'sit-outs', as infuriating as they are, aren't ideologically glued to the MAGA cult. IOW, no deprogramming necessary. They will suffer for their naval-gazing apathy which will wake them the fuck up because they will have NO CHOICE. And you could 'convert' 20 of them for every MAGA you might convert. The effort to outcome ratio is SO much greater when reaching out to the sit-outs
Also part of the problem are the single issue purity ponies. Thise would be the ones who couldn't vote for Harris because she didn't check all the boxes. Particularly infuriating to me are these Arab Americans who wouldn’t vote for "Genocide Joe" or "Killer Kamala". How is the Trump administration working out for Gaza?