In the olden days—before the internet—communities held together by an agreed set of morals and behavior. If you stepped out of line, you risked shame. People turned their backs, and that social exile kept order.
But you can’t shame a MAGA. Shamelessness is their superpower. They wear it like armor. Every time they break a norm, spit on a truth, or torch a rule, it’s not a mistake—it’s the point.
So if I’m supposed to bend, change, or adjust to these new circumstances just to “fix” the world—what exactly are they doing? I haven’t seen a single MAGA fireside chat about how to love their “libtard” neighbor, or a bean supper fundraiser to promote tolerance and understanding. There’s no class on How to Hug a Liberal and Mean It.
It’s always us making the concessions. Us bending the knee. My knees are calloused, my back is bent, and my tolerance is shot.
⸻
The hard truth: it’s not about getting them to suddenly have a fireside epiphany. It’s about deciding how much more bending we’re willing to do before the knees snap. If shame won’t work, and kindness gets spit back in your face, maybe the only move left is to stop playing their game. Withdraw the oxygen. Refuse to kneel.
Or as my grandmother would’ve said: “You don’t teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
This is a really good point. Is a domestic abuse victim close-minded for steering clear of people who say "there's no such thing" etc.? No, they are taking care of themselves. Good work PTG.
After Nixon resigned, it became difficult to find a Republican who would admit to voting for him. They lied and hid out then, and they will lie and hide out now.
I hope we get to that point, because it’ll mean the bastard is in our past and we move on to a place where people are ashamed to have ever supported him.
Contrast it with now, where the media and establishment Democrats are afraid to say what he really is.
Democrats obviously must win over more people who previously haven’t voted and even those who voted for Trump, but I think contra Jain, we have a BETTER chance of winning them over by NOT trying to be nice to them. They don’t respect nice! They see nice as weakness when it’s coming from those they openly scorn! Instead just focus on taking care of yourselves and those you care about, try to run blue states/cities better (making them a more attractive place to live, eg with more abundant housing, would appeal more to those on the fence and better fir long term politics anyway) and go on mocking Trump and his dipshits that he keeps ripping off. Show strength and even many MAGAs will want to be among the strong, and will abandon MAGA and maybe become the sort of people you’ll want to associate with.
Kissing their butts will just remind them why they despise you in the first place.
Yep. I'm not dealing with my husband's family right now, because they let me know where they stand, and I cannot pretend I don't. I will be cordial, but I ain't showing up for holidays, I'm not doing one thing extra, and I'm not wasting my energy on educating them.
“That’s the problem with the token liberals on Fox News. Jessica Tarlov represents the misguided liberal daughter who receives rhetorical swirlies from MAGA ‘brothers’ Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld.”
Stephen, you just perfectly described my lifelong experience with my older and younger brother.
"I want to be a cruel and horrible person and give in to all of my worst impulses and I want you to still treat me like I'm a decent and good human being."
Sorry. Doesn't work that way. To quote their supposed favorite book at them: what fellowship has Christ with Belial?
The true MAGA goal is domination. To the extent there are persuadable voters, it’s probably those who had concern about the economy. Boy. Aren’t they surprised.
Living in an extremely red state I am cordial to all, even friendly and helpful. But when they inevitably make comments, racist, sexist, etc, I don’t stay silent. I’m kind but bring up the teachings of Jesus. What you don’t mention in this article is that they will always shun a person not perceived to be in their group. It makes it impossible to actually have a conversation about anything but the weather. I didn’t really leave these people or relationships, they left me, which is fine, even good for my emotional well being. I’ll continue to be kind but we’ve crossed a rubicon in this country and it’s up to them to come to sanity and decide to be good humans.
I'm sure I probably have some friends who are MAGA, but I admit I don't ask.
I do keep an eye out for bigotry among those I know. It's like, "fine," you don't think taxes should be a thing, whatever. That's a political difference. But support for ethnic cleansing, support for getting rid of trans people, I draw the line.
Someone had to draw a line somewhere for me to be able to get my rights. Hell, some people in the Democratic Party drew a line in 1964 which led to my full enfranchisement, and it was an incredible political cost. BUt the moral boon was great.
thanks, Stephen, for bringing some nuance to this subject. I see a lot fewer social media comments these days saying we should continue to try to persuade MAGAS online. they believe these people (the real cult, not the "I voted for cheap eggs" ones) are available to persuade. I always asked if they had every succeeded, and nobody said yes. I'm all for going after the persuadable egg-price voters but believe wasting further energy and goodwill on people who think we're cannibals, pedophiles, Marxists, etc etc is squandering resources we can't afford to waste.
My experience with Trumper relatives is that what they want is to get their jollies by insulting you and then rip you off. I maintained periodic contact with my late husband's cousin while coordinating his still-living mother's care. The cousin would behave for a while, then make a remark obviously designed to get a rise out of me, which I refused to do, ending the conversation and telling her I would not call her again until she could treat me with respect. Months later, she'd call back full of false friendship and sympathy. Of course, she did nothing. but whine. After my husband's mother died, the cousin called a month later, saying my in-law had promised her $50,000.00. No paperwork and a lie that my husband was aware of this (as she dated the conversation to the height of the COVID lockdown). I told her if I heard from her again, she'd be hearing from my lawyer, and then blocked her phone number. These people are irredeemable.
Wow. That so closely mirrors a situation in my own extended family. My ex-sister in law, whose name I have not allowed in my presence since my husband’s death 10 years ago, has just popped back up, trying to ingratiate herself with a few of us. In a spate of messages to each other, we’ve all justifiably concluded yeah, she’s trying to grift family members for $$$ again. Yes, of course she’s a Trumper.
This is excellent advice for organizers. When I did that work it was a huge part of it to remember: you don’t have to be buddies with these people. You just have to talk to them and create a trust over some shared principles in order to defeat the Big Bad.
In the olden days—before the internet—communities held together by an agreed set of morals and behavior. If you stepped out of line, you risked shame. People turned their backs, and that social exile kept order.
But you can’t shame a MAGA. Shamelessness is their superpower. They wear it like armor. Every time they break a norm, spit on a truth, or torch a rule, it’s not a mistake—it’s the point.
So if I’m supposed to bend, change, or adjust to these new circumstances just to “fix” the world—what exactly are they doing? I haven’t seen a single MAGA fireside chat about how to love their “libtard” neighbor, or a bean supper fundraiser to promote tolerance and understanding. There’s no class on How to Hug a Liberal and Mean It.
It’s always us making the concessions. Us bending the knee. My knees are calloused, my back is bent, and my tolerance is shot.
⸻
The hard truth: it’s not about getting them to suddenly have a fireside epiphany. It’s about deciding how much more bending we’re willing to do before the knees snap. If shame won’t work, and kindness gets spit back in your face, maybe the only move left is to stop playing their game. Withdraw the oxygen. Refuse to kneel.
Or as my grandmother would’ve said: “You don’t teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
Jain, you ignorant...
Too funny…
This is a really good point. Is a domestic abuse victim close-minded for steering clear of people who say "there's no such thing" etc.? No, they are taking care of themselves. Good work PTG.
And former MAGAs likely won’t come out and say “I used to be MAGA.” Instead they’ll pretend they never were one.
Which is fine by me.
After Nixon resigned, it became difficult to find a Republican who would admit to voting for him. They lied and hid out then, and they will lie and hide out now.
I voted for him, but as a Democrat. The only Republican I've ever voted for at any level.
I hope we get to that point, because it’ll mean the bastard is in our past and we move on to a place where people are ashamed to have ever supported him.
Contrast it with now, where the media and establishment Democrats are afraid to say what he really is.
Democrats obviously must win over more people who previously haven’t voted and even those who voted for Trump, but I think contra Jain, we have a BETTER chance of winning them over by NOT trying to be nice to them. They don’t respect nice! They see nice as weakness when it’s coming from those they openly scorn! Instead just focus on taking care of yourselves and those you care about, try to run blue states/cities better (making them a more attractive place to live, eg with more abundant housing, would appeal more to those on the fence and better fir long term politics anyway) and go on mocking Trump and his dipshits that he keeps ripping off. Show strength and even many MAGAs will want to be among the strong, and will abandon MAGA and maybe become the sort of people you’ll want to associate with.
Kissing their butts will just remind them why they despise you in the first place.
They don't only revel in their cruelty, they demand we love them for it. This is the classic sign of an abusive relationship.
Fuck that noise...I really don't need such toxic people in my life, and if I'm a 'bad liberal' for that, well fuck the person telling me that too.
“But nobody hates Trump voters more than young liberals do (this is less of a thing with old Democrats).”
1. While my precise age is no one's business--I can assure the writer that some of us not-so-young liberals hate them too TYVM
2. And we're only returning the favor--if this writer thinks Trump voters don't hate us, he needs to get out more
3. OFFS...
Yep. I'm not dealing with my husband's family right now, because they let me know where they stand, and I cannot pretend I don't. I will be cordial, but I ain't showing up for holidays, I'm not doing one thing extra, and I'm not wasting my energy on educating them.
“That’s the problem with the token liberals on Fox News. Jessica Tarlov represents the misguided liberal daughter who receives rhetorical swirlies from MAGA ‘brothers’ Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld.”
Stephen, you just perfectly described my lifelong experience with my older and younger brother.
"I want to be a cruel and horrible person and give in to all of my worst impulses and I want you to still treat me like I'm a decent and good human being."
Sorry. Doesn't work that way. To quote their supposed favorite book at them: what fellowship has Christ with Belial?
The true MAGA goal is domination. To the extent there are persuadable voters, it’s probably those who had concern about the economy. Boy. Aren’t they surprised.
Living in an extremely red state I am cordial to all, even friendly and helpful. But when they inevitably make comments, racist, sexist, etc, I don’t stay silent. I’m kind but bring up the teachings of Jesus. What you don’t mention in this article is that they will always shun a person not perceived to be in their group. It makes it impossible to actually have a conversation about anything but the weather. I didn’t really leave these people or relationships, they left me, which is fine, even good for my emotional well being. I’ll continue to be kind but we’ve crossed a rubicon in this country and it’s up to them to come to sanity and decide to be good humans.
I'm sure I probably have some friends who are MAGA, but I admit I don't ask.
I do keep an eye out for bigotry among those I know. It's like, "fine," you don't think taxes should be a thing, whatever. That's a political difference. But support for ethnic cleansing, support for getting rid of trans people, I draw the line.
Someone had to draw a line somewhere for me to be able to get my rights. Hell, some people in the Democratic Party drew a line in 1964 which led to my full enfranchisement, and it was an incredible political cost. BUt the moral boon was great.
thanks, Stephen, for bringing some nuance to this subject. I see a lot fewer social media comments these days saying we should continue to try to persuade MAGAS online. they believe these people (the real cult, not the "I voted for cheap eggs" ones) are available to persuade. I always asked if they had every succeeded, and nobody said yes. I'm all for going after the persuadable egg-price voters but believe wasting further energy and goodwill on people who think we're cannibals, pedophiles, Marxists, etc etc is squandering resources we can't afford to waste.
My experience with Trumper relatives is that what they want is to get their jollies by insulting you and then rip you off. I maintained periodic contact with my late husband's cousin while coordinating his still-living mother's care. The cousin would behave for a while, then make a remark obviously designed to get a rise out of me, which I refused to do, ending the conversation and telling her I would not call her again until she could treat me with respect. Months later, she'd call back full of false friendship and sympathy. Of course, she did nothing. but whine. After my husband's mother died, the cousin called a month later, saying my in-law had promised her $50,000.00. No paperwork and a lie that my husband was aware of this (as she dated the conversation to the height of the COVID lockdown). I told her if I heard from her again, she'd be hearing from my lawyer, and then blocked her phone number. These people are irredeemable.
Wow. That so closely mirrors a situation in my own extended family. My ex-sister in law, whose name I have not allowed in my presence since my husband’s death 10 years ago, has just popped back up, trying to ingratiate herself with a few of us. In a spate of messages to each other, we’ve all justifiably concluded yeah, she’s trying to grift family members for $$$ again. Yes, of course she’s a Trumper.
This is excellent advice for organizers. When I did that work it was a huge part of it to remember: you don’t have to be buddies with these people. You just have to talk to them and create a trust over some shared principles in order to defeat the Big Bad.