My sisters and I are all of different political ideologies with the oldest being GOP, the youngest Libertarian and me, the middle, DEM. We’ve settled into an accord of sorts where we do not talk about these things. This isn’t hard when you’re raised in the south where you regularly ignore the elephant in the room and fiddle dee dee i’ll think about it tomorrow.
We just all agree that we need each other and that is that.
I know that no one is going to have me extreme liberal views and neither am I going to have theirs. But perhaps some time in the future there may be a change and we come together. You can never stop having hope.
Relatives leaning Republican learned long ago that I was only too happy to debate politics with them. When my family thought it was "funny" to seat me next to my racist Great Uncle (he liked to defend apartheid in South Africa and was adamant that divestiture was a non-starter for change), I left the table early and told my grandmother that next time the gloves would be off. There was no next time - Uncle Gay was seated next to more "convivial" dinner partners. My father and I had a standing "union" (me) vs. "non-union" (him) debate that was a regular feature at holiday dinners - the first time my stepmother heard us go at it, she thought she was going to "have a heart attack". I regularly debated Christianity with my "born-again" friends and family which meant knowing the Bible at least as well as they did. People's whose faith was genuine and who walked their talk, I left to their path, those who were insistent on a prosperity gospel and particularly on me walking it with them got an earful about why that wasn't gonna happen. I openly disagreed in discussions with my elderly Fox News-watching mother right up until she was hospitalized with a fatal lung infection - but I did not abandon her or my stepfather who had dementia. People leaning MAGA wisely do not generally wish to engage with me, but if they do I will persist until they give up and go away. I also recognize that my family "tolerated" my "cussedness" and mostly did not "excommunicate" me - although my father did often "jokingly" introduce me as someone he thought "would grow up to be (SLA revolutionary and bankrobber) Patty Hearst"** - but I do like to think that all that "tolerating" of me may have played some role in many of them eventually converting to voting "Demoncrap".
** The Patty Hearst intro stopped when I insisted on pointing out each time that they only WISHED I would "grow up" to be like Ms. Hearst, who after her shameful trial, conviction and imprisonment for being a sexually abused and starved kidnap victim, became a "Connecticut housewife" with two kids and a dog, married to her policeman bodyguard.
Also, think how weird the “MAGAs are beyond redemption” argument is—would these same critics look at a prison inmate and say “yeah, he’s beyond fixing, write him off”? We shouldn’t be naive but history is filled with cases of people changing for the better. It doesn’t mean more “diner safaris” or “let’s be more Republican, that’ll win them over”. Stand for what you believe, sell it better than you have (think about your audience! Preach to the masses, not your choir), and show some grace when someone is ready to move towards you. The best way to destroy your enemy is to turn him into a friend.
I’m fortunate in that the only friends and relatives I interact at with all hate Trump but imagine it couldn’t be easy having say a father who is otherwise a terrific person but has this blind spot for MAGA. One thing liberals do have to get through their head is that while Trump supporters include a lot of assorted pieces of shit, he has also managed to appeal to otherwise normal people in a way we can’t understand. It’s not just “white supremacy”—these people in their hearts don’t believe Trump is promoting that, only that he’s “politically incorrect”—but he does play on natural fears of losing what little they have. It’s jarring to us because he seems so obviously a scumbag but if you’re consuming different media or just seeing the same items through a different lens, you can have a different take on what to us just seems a given.
Anyway, if we don’t figure out how to reach more people (nonvoters but also some former Trump voters) we are screwed. Assuming they’re lost causes is a recipe for disaster.
Spot on about Fanny - if only the maladministration had at least a few Fannys in it. It's not just that she felt guilty for betraying Heaven, but she made amends. Like several people in "The Lord of the Rings," Boromir (tried to take the Ring from Frodo, then died trying to save Merry and Pippin from the Orcs) and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins (a truly nasty character, who stole Bilbo's silver spoons, and who didn't get a long with anyone other than her son Otho. But she stood up to the ruffians who were taking over the Shire, was imprisoned for it, and upon release, learned of Otho's murder, so GAVE Bag End back to Frodo. When she died, she left all of her money to help the Hobbits made homeless due to the troubles, with Frodo as the executor). One was a good guy who let an obsession overtake him, but he made up for it. The other was not a good gal, but when trouble came, she became a better person, and made up for it.
My sisters and I are all of different political ideologies with the oldest being GOP, the youngest Libertarian and me, the middle, DEM. We’ve settled into an accord of sorts where we do not talk about these things. This isn’t hard when you’re raised in the south where you regularly ignore the elephant in the room and fiddle dee dee i’ll think about it tomorrow.
We just all agree that we need each other and that is that.
I know that no one is going to have me extreme liberal views and neither am I going to have theirs. But perhaps some time in the future there may be a change and we come together. You can never stop having hope.
Relatives leaning Republican learned long ago that I was only too happy to debate politics with them. When my family thought it was "funny" to seat me next to my racist Great Uncle (he liked to defend apartheid in South Africa and was adamant that divestiture was a non-starter for change), I left the table early and told my grandmother that next time the gloves would be off. There was no next time - Uncle Gay was seated next to more "convivial" dinner partners. My father and I had a standing "union" (me) vs. "non-union" (him) debate that was a regular feature at holiday dinners - the first time my stepmother heard us go at it, she thought she was going to "have a heart attack". I regularly debated Christianity with my "born-again" friends and family which meant knowing the Bible at least as well as they did. People's whose faith was genuine and who walked their talk, I left to their path, those who were insistent on a prosperity gospel and particularly on me walking it with them got an earful about why that wasn't gonna happen. I openly disagreed in discussions with my elderly Fox News-watching mother right up until she was hospitalized with a fatal lung infection - but I did not abandon her or my stepfather who had dementia. People leaning MAGA wisely do not generally wish to engage with me, but if they do I will persist until they give up and go away. I also recognize that my family "tolerated" my "cussedness" and mostly did not "excommunicate" me - although my father did often "jokingly" introduce me as someone he thought "would grow up to be (SLA revolutionary and bankrobber) Patty Hearst"** - but I do like to think that all that "tolerating" of me may have played some role in many of them eventually converting to voting "Demoncrap".
** The Patty Hearst intro stopped when I insisted on pointing out each time that they only WISHED I would "grow up" to be like Ms. Hearst, who after her shameful trial, conviction and imprisonment for being a sexually abused and starved kidnap victim, became a "Connecticut housewife" with two kids and a dog, married to her policeman bodyguard.
Also, think how weird the “MAGAs are beyond redemption” argument is—would these same critics look at a prison inmate and say “yeah, he’s beyond fixing, write him off”? We shouldn’t be naive but history is filled with cases of people changing for the better. It doesn’t mean more “diner safaris” or “let’s be more Republican, that’ll win them over”. Stand for what you believe, sell it better than you have (think about your audience! Preach to the masses, not your choir), and show some grace when someone is ready to move towards you. The best way to destroy your enemy is to turn him into a friend.
I’m fortunate in that the only friends and relatives I interact at with all hate Trump but imagine it couldn’t be easy having say a father who is otherwise a terrific person but has this blind spot for MAGA. One thing liberals do have to get through their head is that while Trump supporters include a lot of assorted pieces of shit, he has also managed to appeal to otherwise normal people in a way we can’t understand. It’s not just “white supremacy”—these people in their hearts don’t believe Trump is promoting that, only that he’s “politically incorrect”—but he does play on natural fears of losing what little they have. It’s jarring to us because he seems so obviously a scumbag but if you’re consuming different media or just seeing the same items through a different lens, you can have a different take on what to us just seems a given.
Anyway, if we don’t figure out how to reach more people (nonvoters but also some former Trump voters) we are screwed. Assuming they’re lost causes is a recipe for disaster.
𝑌𝑒𝑠, 𝐹𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑦 𝑢𝑙𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑏𝑒𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝐻𝑒𝑎𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑓𝑒𝑒𝑙𝑠 𝑔𝑢𝑖𝑙𝑡𝑦 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑖𝑡 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑠. 𝐿𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝐼 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑, 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑛𝑜𝑟𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐𝑎𝑝𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑛𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑇𝑟𝑢𝑚𝑝’𝑠 𝑊ℎ𝑖𝑡𝑒 𝐻𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑒.
Spot on about Fanny - if only the maladministration had at least a few Fannys in it. It's not just that she felt guilty for betraying Heaven, but she made amends. Like several people in "The Lord of the Rings," Boromir (tried to take the Ring from Frodo, then died trying to save Merry and Pippin from the Orcs) and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins (a truly nasty character, who stole Bilbo's silver spoons, and who didn't get a long with anyone other than her son Otho. But she stood up to the ruffians who were taking over the Shire, was imprisoned for it, and upon release, learned of Otho's murder, so GAVE Bag End back to Frodo. When she died, she left all of her money to help the Hobbits made homeless due to the troubles, with Frodo as the executor). One was a good guy who let an obsession overtake him, but he made up for it. The other was not a good gal, but when trouble came, she became a better person, and made up for it.