I think that the human mind is like a collection of the ideas they've received, especially the most recent ones. A person can't unhear what is told to them. So I think it's best to keep trying to feed some correct ideas, because you never know when it will click.
I am so glad to have this venue to post on right now. I am completely freaking out and I have no idea what to do. I know this isn't the right thread to comment on but I feel like I have nowhere else to go. Or practically nowhere else to go. But I regularly get feedback even on older threads like this.
I'm going to ask you to try to corroborate what I think I'm seeing. Maybe it's just me. We all know how YouTube and Facebook and other social media algorithms work. They give us more of what we click on. I am as guilty as anyone else of leaning into that Algorithm, or at least pretending it doesn't exist. I am a big fan of Zoran Mamdani as I know most of you guys are. Whenever I search his name in YouTube, I regularly get the kinds of content that I would expect. A lot of upbeat posts from him, and positive messages and podcasts relating to him. I totally get that I am in the bubble, and admit it freely. But over the last few hours I have tried to Google his name, and everything that comes up is a smear against him. It's like all of the good stuff has been utterly erased from YouTube. I have never seen anything like it. I tried using different search parameters, and different wording, and everything comes up with that fucked up View interview, and a bunch of stuff with Cuomo showing up. Could some of you guys try doing a YouTube search of Mamdani to see if it's just something weird on my end? It is literally like everything good about him has been disappeared and he is being presented as a villain in every single fucking YouTube comment and post that I see. It's fucking surreal. I hope it's just some weird glitch on my end.
I'm currently residing in the hell of most of my relatives being Trump supporters. I do hope they are redeemable, but I just don't know anymore. There seems to be nothing they aren't capable of excusing or ignoring when it comes to the regime. They've even doubled and tripled down on telling me that I'm overreacting about the anti trans propaganda that affects my son directly. It is maddening and frustrating like nothing I have ever experienced before.
That sounds like a very trying situation. I hope you'll continue to advocate. I know a family that went through something like your situation (older, conservative grandparents, a non binary grandchild, and a mom who didn't stop defending them) and over time, real progress has been made. You may be the only source for truthful information your relatives receive. If they get defensive, maybe you're hitting a nerve.
Yeah. It's hard enough being the one liberal without others holding you personally responsible for other people's views. Trust me, if there was a "show Trump voters how horrible he is" button, I would have already used it on my own behalf.
I like to think about this as i only had to remove a couple rightwing bigots from my life. Then I think about the cruelty someone had to cosign to give a second or third vote to the pricktator.
I think of people who voted for him after the demonization of innocent Haitian-Americans. I think of people who laughed at Puerto Rico being called a floating pile of garbage.
Then I remember that only Democrats—whether officials or influencers or voters—have accountability for their behavior and the world makes sense again.
My sisters and I are all of different political ideologies with the oldest being GOP, the youngest Libertarian and me, the middle, DEM. We’ve settled into an accord of sorts where we do not talk about these things. This isn’t hard when you’re raised in the south where you regularly ignore the elephant in the room and fiddle dee dee i’ll think about it tomorrow.
We just all agree that we need each other and that is that.
I know that no one is going to have me extreme liberal views and neither am I going to have theirs. But perhaps some time in the future there may be a change and we come together. You can never stop having hope.
Relatives leaning Republican learned long ago that I was only too happy to debate politics with them. When my family thought it was "funny" to seat me next to my racist Great Uncle (he liked to defend apartheid in South Africa and was adamant that divestiture was a non-starter for change), I left the table early and told my grandmother that next time the gloves would be off. There was no next time - Uncle Gay was seated next to more "convivial" dinner partners. My father and I had a standing "union" (me) vs. "non-union" (him) debate that was a regular feature at holiday dinners - the first time my stepmother heard us go at it, she thought she was going to "have a heart attack". I regularly debated Christianity with my "born-again" friends and family which meant knowing the Bible at least as well as they did. People's whose faith was genuine and who walked their talk, I left to their path, those who were insistent on a prosperity gospel and particularly on me walking it with them got an earful about why that wasn't gonna happen. I openly disagreed in discussions with my elderly Fox News-watching mother right up until she was hospitalized with a fatal lung infection - but I did not abandon her or my stepfather who had dementia. People leaning MAGA wisely do not generally wish to engage with me, but if they do I will persist until they give up and go away. I also recognize that my family "tolerated" my "cussedness" and mostly did not "excommunicate" me - although my father did often "jokingly" introduce me as someone he thought "would grow up to be (SLA revolutionary and bankrobber) Patty Hearst"** - but I do like to think that all that "tolerating" of me may have played some role in many of them eventually converting to voting "Demoncrap".
** The Patty Hearst intro stopped when I insisted on pointing out each time that they only WISHED I would "grow up" to be like Ms. Hearst, who after her shameful trial, conviction and imprisonment for being a sexually abused and starved kidnap victim, became a "Connecticut housewife" with two kids and a dog, married to her policeman bodyguard.
Also, think how weird the “MAGAs are beyond redemption” argument is—would these same critics look at a prison inmate and say “yeah, he’s beyond fixing, write him off”? We shouldn’t be naive but history is filled with cases of people changing for the better. It doesn’t mean more “diner safaris” or “let’s be more Republican, that’ll win them over”. Stand for what you believe, sell it better than you have (think about your audience! Preach to the masses, not your choir), and show some grace when someone is ready to move towards you. The best way to destroy your enemy is to turn him into a friend.
All kidding aside. The MAGA family problem is often seen (quite rightly in many cases) as a betrayal WITHIN the family. People watching their once decent parents and siblings turn into moral garbage frankly. And while they certainly may be redeemable. They are CURRENTLY responsible for and CURRENTLY still supporting this moment.
I’m fortunate in that the only friends and relatives I interact at with all hate Trump but imagine it couldn’t be easy having say a father who is otherwise a terrific person but has this blind spot for MAGA. One thing liberals do have to get through their head is that while Trump supporters include a lot of assorted pieces of shit, he has also managed to appeal to otherwise normal people in a way we can’t understand. It’s not just “white supremacy”—these people in their hearts don’t believe Trump is promoting that, only that he’s “politically incorrect”—but he does play on natural fears of losing what little they have. It’s jarring to us because he seems so obviously a scumbag but if you’re consuming different media or just seeing the same items through a different lens, you can have a different take on what to us just seems a given.
Anyway, if we don’t figure out how to reach more people (nonvoters but also some former Trump voters) we are screwed. Assuming they’re lost causes is a recipe for disaster.
The most generous thing I can say about them is they have a blind spot the rest of us don't have.
And that is quite literally the best I can say. There are other factors I simply can't excuse.
But I agree with SER about refraining from talking trash about OTHER people's families and giving advice/ criticism. But WITHIN families everyone has the right to determine their OWN tolerance levels.
Spot on about Fanny - if only the maladministration had at least a few Fannys in it. It's not just that she felt guilty for betraying Heaven, but she made amends. Like several people in "The Lord of the Rings," Boromir (tried to take the Ring from Frodo, then died trying to save Merry and Pippin from the Orcs) and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins (a truly nasty character, who stole Bilbo's silver spoons, and who didn't get a long with anyone other than her son Otho. But she stood up to the ruffians who were taking over the Shire, was imprisoned for it, and upon release, learned of Otho's murder, so GAVE Bag End back to Frodo. When she died, she left all of her money to help the Hobbits made homeless due to the troubles, with Frodo as the executor). One was a good guy who let an obsession overtake him, but he made up for it. The other was not a good gal, but when trouble came, she became a better person, and made up for it.
I think that the human mind is like a collection of the ideas they've received, especially the most recent ones. A person can't unhear what is told to them. So I think it's best to keep trying to feed some correct ideas, because you never know when it will click.
I am so glad to have this venue to post on right now. I am completely freaking out and I have no idea what to do. I know this isn't the right thread to comment on but I feel like I have nowhere else to go. Or practically nowhere else to go. But I regularly get feedback even on older threads like this.
I'm going to ask you to try to corroborate what I think I'm seeing. Maybe it's just me. We all know how YouTube and Facebook and other social media algorithms work. They give us more of what we click on. I am as guilty as anyone else of leaning into that Algorithm, or at least pretending it doesn't exist. I am a big fan of Zoran Mamdani as I know most of you guys are. Whenever I search his name in YouTube, I regularly get the kinds of content that I would expect. A lot of upbeat posts from him, and positive messages and podcasts relating to him. I totally get that I am in the bubble, and admit it freely. But over the last few hours I have tried to Google his name, and everything that comes up is a smear against him. It's like all of the good stuff has been utterly erased from YouTube. I have never seen anything like it. I tried using different search parameters, and different wording, and everything comes up with that fucked up View interview, and a bunch of stuff with Cuomo showing up. Could some of you guys try doing a YouTube search of Mamdani to see if it's just something weird on my end? It is literally like everything good about him has been disappeared and he is being presented as a villain in every single fucking YouTube comment and post that I see. It's fucking surreal. I hope it's just some weird glitch on my end.
I'm currently residing in the hell of most of my relatives being Trump supporters. I do hope they are redeemable, but I just don't know anymore. There seems to be nothing they aren't capable of excusing or ignoring when it comes to the regime. They've even doubled and tripled down on telling me that I'm overreacting about the anti trans propaganda that affects my son directly. It is maddening and frustrating like nothing I have ever experienced before.
That sounds like a very trying situation. I hope you'll continue to advocate. I know a family that went through something like your situation (older, conservative grandparents, a non binary grandchild, and a mom who didn't stop defending them) and over time, real progress has been made. You may be the only source for truthful information your relatives receive. If they get defensive, maybe you're hitting a nerve.
Yeah. It's hard enough being the one liberal without others holding you personally responsible for other people's views. Trust me, if there was a "show Trump voters how horrible he is" button, I would have already used it on my own behalf.
I like to think about this as i only had to remove a couple rightwing bigots from my life. Then I think about the cruelty someone had to cosign to give a second or third vote to the pricktator.
I think of people who voted for him after the demonization of innocent Haitian-Americans. I think of people who laughed at Puerto Rico being called a floating pile of garbage.
Then I remember that only Democrats—whether officials or influencers or voters—have accountability for their behavior and the world makes sense again.
Cold, harsh and 100 true
My sisters and I are all of different political ideologies with the oldest being GOP, the youngest Libertarian and me, the middle, DEM. We’ve settled into an accord of sorts where we do not talk about these things. This isn’t hard when you’re raised in the south where you regularly ignore the elephant in the room and fiddle dee dee i’ll think about it tomorrow.
We just all agree that we need each other and that is that.
I know that no one is going to have me extreme liberal views and neither am I going to have theirs. But perhaps some time in the future there may be a change and we come together. You can never stop having hope.
Relatives leaning Republican learned long ago that I was only too happy to debate politics with them. When my family thought it was "funny" to seat me next to my racist Great Uncle (he liked to defend apartheid in South Africa and was adamant that divestiture was a non-starter for change), I left the table early and told my grandmother that next time the gloves would be off. There was no next time - Uncle Gay was seated next to more "convivial" dinner partners. My father and I had a standing "union" (me) vs. "non-union" (him) debate that was a regular feature at holiday dinners - the first time my stepmother heard us go at it, she thought she was going to "have a heart attack". I regularly debated Christianity with my "born-again" friends and family which meant knowing the Bible at least as well as they did. People's whose faith was genuine and who walked their talk, I left to their path, those who were insistent on a prosperity gospel and particularly on me walking it with them got an earful about why that wasn't gonna happen. I openly disagreed in discussions with my elderly Fox News-watching mother right up until she was hospitalized with a fatal lung infection - but I did not abandon her or my stepfather who had dementia. People leaning MAGA wisely do not generally wish to engage with me, but if they do I will persist until they give up and go away. I also recognize that my family "tolerated" my "cussedness" and mostly did not "excommunicate" me - although my father did often "jokingly" introduce me as someone he thought "would grow up to be (SLA revolutionary and bankrobber) Patty Hearst"** - but I do like to think that all that "tolerating" of me may have played some role in many of them eventually converting to voting "Demoncrap".
** The Patty Hearst intro stopped when I insisted on pointing out each time that they only WISHED I would "grow up" to be like Ms. Hearst, who after her shameful trial, conviction and imprisonment for being a sexually abused and starved kidnap victim, became a "Connecticut housewife" with two kids and a dog, married to her policeman bodyguard.
" I left the table early and told my grandmother that next time the gloves would be off. "
And THAT, ladies and germs, is HOW its done...That is actually a great strategy to consider in future
Also, think how weird the “MAGAs are beyond redemption” argument is—would these same critics look at a prison inmate and say “yeah, he’s beyond fixing, write him off”? We shouldn’t be naive but history is filled with cases of people changing for the better. It doesn’t mean more “diner safaris” or “let’s be more Republican, that’ll win them over”. Stand for what you believe, sell it better than you have (think about your audience! Preach to the masses, not your choir), and show some grace when someone is ready to move towards you. The best way to destroy your enemy is to turn him into a friend.
such a good point about how the left is more sympathetic toward violent criminals than they are MAGA voters.
I have NO problem viewing them in the same light!
(;
All kidding aside. The MAGA family problem is often seen (quite rightly in many cases) as a betrayal WITHIN the family. People watching their once decent parents and siblings turn into moral garbage frankly. And while they certainly may be redeemable. They are CURRENTLY responsible for and CURRENTLY still supporting this moment.
So the extra ire is over betrayal I think
I’m fortunate in that the only friends and relatives I interact at with all hate Trump but imagine it couldn’t be easy having say a father who is otherwise a terrific person but has this blind spot for MAGA. One thing liberals do have to get through their head is that while Trump supporters include a lot of assorted pieces of shit, he has also managed to appeal to otherwise normal people in a way we can’t understand. It’s not just “white supremacy”—these people in their hearts don’t believe Trump is promoting that, only that he’s “politically incorrect”—but he does play on natural fears of losing what little they have. It’s jarring to us because he seems so obviously a scumbag but if you’re consuming different media or just seeing the same items through a different lens, you can have a different take on what to us just seems a given.
Anyway, if we don’t figure out how to reach more people (nonvoters but also some former Trump voters) we are screwed. Assuming they’re lost causes is a recipe for disaster.
The most generous thing I can say about them is they have a blind spot the rest of us don't have.
And that is quite literally the best I can say. There are other factors I simply can't excuse.
But I agree with SER about refraining from talking trash about OTHER people's families and giving advice/ criticism. But WITHIN families everyone has the right to determine their OWN tolerance levels.
𝑌𝑒𝑠, 𝐹𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑦 𝑢𝑙𝑡𝑖𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑏𝑒𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝐻𝑒𝑎𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑓𝑒𝑒𝑙𝑠 𝑔𝑢𝑖𝑙𝑡𝑦 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑖𝑡 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑠. 𝐿𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝐼 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑, 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑛𝑜𝑟𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐𝑎𝑝𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑛𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑇𝑟𝑢𝑚𝑝’𝑠 𝑊ℎ𝑖𝑡𝑒 𝐻𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑒.
Spot on about Fanny - if only the maladministration had at least a few Fannys in it. It's not just that she felt guilty for betraying Heaven, but she made amends. Like several people in "The Lord of the Rings," Boromir (tried to take the Ring from Frodo, then died trying to save Merry and Pippin from the Orcs) and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins (a truly nasty character, who stole Bilbo's silver spoons, and who didn't get a long with anyone other than her son Otho. But she stood up to the ruffians who were taking over the Shire, was imprisoned for it, and upon release, learned of Otho's murder, so GAVE Bag End back to Frodo. When she died, she left all of her money to help the Hobbits made homeless due to the troubles, with Frodo as the executor). One was a good guy who let an obsession overtake him, but he made up for it. The other was not a good gal, but when trouble came, she became a better person, and made up for it.