What Seinfeld doesn't understand (and wouldn't care if he did know) was that some of us never found him funny.
His comedy was like the Emperor's new clothes -- if you didn't find it funny, it was because you weren't hip enough. And God forbid anyone admit to not being hip.
It was boring. It was based on superficial people doing superficial things while trying to convince the audience that in a postmodern world vacuousness and cruelty was humor.
I always assumed it worked better if you watched it when you were high, but I wasn't willing to test that theory.
Gary Trudeau once said the point of humor was to punch up. Seinfeld never did.
…”For a show famously about nothing, Seinfeld created a whole lot of something for its star. The enduring sitcom has helped propel comedian Jerry Seinfeld's net worth to more than $1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, which is valuing his wealth for the first time.Mar 22, 2024”
This is REALLY 'funny coming from him...His comedy is notoriously 'squeaky clean' and PC. ANNOYINGLY so ..and frankly I never 'got him'...Also, punching down has never been funny which is why comedians like Galligan, Oswalt, and Mulaney are the top dogs. they punch up and in..And lots of self deprecation...A kind of 'we're all in this together' vibe. Notice too that failed RW comedians end up doing dude-bro podcasts. And when I say Punching down isn't funny, I don't necessarily mean it like: Hey guys!!! that's not FUNNY!!" I mean it is TECHNICALLY not funny, like, it FAILS AS comedy outside of the context of punching up of down...
Seinfeld is clearly not watching my favorites of the past few years: What We Do in the Shadows, Wellington Paranormal, Our Flag Means Death, The Chair, Life and Beth...hilarious, sometimes profane, overtly sexual at times...way funnier than Seinfeld, which was always a "meh" with occasional hilarity for me.
Ol Jer is this close to quoting Grandpa Simpson verbatim.
“I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!”
>> Yes, that’s true test of one’s talent. It’s not a burden. It’s actually a gift. <<
I've never been a comedian, but I have written poetry. Writing poetry seems frustrating to some because of all the extra rules (there are no rules). Middling talents find ways to satisfy all the rules while saying something valuable. The great talents satisfy all the rules while also not sounding like they're trying to satisfy the rules. You don't have to end a sentence or clause at the end of a line, but you need a word with just enough emphasis so that its later rhyme resonates. For the great ones, the poetry speaks with a human voice that seems only accidentally to fit the artificial rules of a given poetic form.
That's the difference between a poetic giant and one who has a moment, a time when the form they find easiest to write in happens to be in fashion.
Your statement here reminds me of my poetic thoughts (and aspirations). Maybe Seinfeld's talent is less than we perceived, made funnier by the zeitgeist, and in a different time, he wouldn't achieve nearly the same success. While Larry David, constantly adapting, finds a way to fit natural humour to any fashionable form.
Oh, your point about following the rules, reminds me of how -- even removed from the context of the time in which they were released -- Hitchcock films are effective teaching aids from new writers. They are well-crafted and you can learn a lot by how the stories are set up.
It’s much harder to teach, say, a Woody Allen film because there’s a sort of “you had to be there” feel to them. *On paper* ANNIE HALL shouldn’t work because Alvy Singer is a pretty odious character -- narcissistic, arrogant, judgmental, and his relationship with Annie is abusive and unhealthy. It’s hardly the upbeat rom com someone thinks they can replicate by following its beats.
I considered CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM a comedy of manners, a form I enjoy. The comedic conflict was often David refusing to adhere to a “rule” he found absurd or protesting against those who didn’t follow a rule that he believed was important.
SEINFELD at its best went in that direction but did gradually become more cartonoish, a little too dark, after David left.
My favorite episode of the series, “The Opposite,” essentially shows Elaine’s life falling apart because she does not adhere to basic societal principles. (A lot of SEINFELD inspired series never grasp this -- their self-absorbed characters never suffer for their sins)
This isn't the first time Seinfeld has griped about this. Every time he does, what I hear is him saying "people don't think I"M funny anymore." Well, given that the show that made you hyper famous and wealthy was about a bunch of terrible people and their misadventures, maybe you aren't funny anymore. Why not just enjoy the Porsche collection your show let you buy?
I grew up in the 70s and 80s and I will be the FIRST to admit that a lot of things we thought were funny back then just are not anymore. Offensive stereotypes abounded, and my spouse and I both have watched old TV shows and said to each other, "I don't know how we ever thought that was funny." Does it bother us that we thought they were funny? Not really, as we both realize that times change. Seems a shame that Jerry Seinfeld doesn't understand it.
The big shift or shift-back happened with 30 Rock and Parks and Rec. Ensemble comedies of people who were flawed but overall decent people...They let episodes and the show itself move into moments of profound kindness and humanity...In a way it was a retro move, and points out how forward thinking the MTM show was....And per Seinifeld and that ilk, People just got fucking sick of all the cynicism and 'irony' of the 90s I think...
I kinda think it’s healthy for people to try to break out of generational expectations. Don’t just watch and listen to the stuff you thought was good when you were twenty three. Get out there, look around. And keep doing that, throughout your life. There’s always something new to find.
I think also a lot of the stuff people celebrate as ‘classic’ ages less well than they realise. Widely watched sitcoms in a universe of fewer channels had to have a pretty broad appeal...
This tending to make them well crafted for what they were but kinda generic and forgettable, too. Most of that stuff Seinfeld mentions I saw some and remember almost nothing of the actual stories. Mostly just a blur of laugh tracks.
I still have some respect for some of those sitcoms but I am also absolutely in no hurry to rewatch any of them. There is so much else, and those were so universal, so ubiquitous, it’s a bit like watching the cultural equivalent of wallpaper.
I recognize that every generation we're going to have to put up with the "things changed--and I. Don't. Like it." crowd, but I sure hope we do not ever have to take them seriously.
Jerry Seinfeld has reached an age where keeping up with changes in culture is too much work and stepping out of the mainstream to relive the 'golden era' is now the easiest way to cope.
My music and movie tastes, my sense of humour and my references with friends all skew back to the late 1980's early 1990s... was the time I was young and unstoppable. I currently can find all the old 80's and 90's movies I loved on Internet Archive as they aren't on streaming and are next to impossible to find on DVD.
Unlike Seinfeld, I don't carp on about woke leftists ruining everything.
Funny that Seinfeld doesn't mention SOAP.
That was a comedy that had something to offend everyone.
Biting but never petty.
What Seinfeld doesn't understand (and wouldn't care if he did know) was that some of us never found him funny.
His comedy was like the Emperor's new clothes -- if you didn't find it funny, it was because you weren't hip enough. And God forbid anyone admit to not being hip.
It was boring. It was based on superficial people doing superficial things while trying to convince the audience that in a postmodern world vacuousness and cruelty was humor.
I always assumed it worked better if you watched it when you were high, but I wasn't willing to test that theory.
Gary Trudeau once said the point of humor was to punch up. Seinfeld never did.
What's a sitcom?
Seriously--I never liked those old sitcoms much. There's much more interesting stuff to watch these days. I want more Reservation Dogs.
The corruption of money is what’s wrong with Seinfeld. It apparently infects everyone with too much of it.
…poor Jerry, maybe he’s just have not enough ?
…”For a show famously about nothing, Seinfeld created a whole lot of something for its star. The enduring sitcom has helped propel comedian Jerry Seinfeld's net worth to more than $1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, which is valuing his wealth for the first time.Mar 22, 2024”
This is REALLY 'funny coming from him...His comedy is notoriously 'squeaky clean' and PC. ANNOYINGLY so ..and frankly I never 'got him'...Also, punching down has never been funny which is why comedians like Galligan, Oswalt, and Mulaney are the top dogs. they punch up and in..And lots of self deprecation...A kind of 'we're all in this together' vibe. Notice too that failed RW comedians end up doing dude-bro podcasts. And when I say Punching down isn't funny, I don't necessarily mean it like: Hey guys!!! that's not FUNNY!!" I mean it is TECHNICALLY not funny, like, it FAILS AS comedy outside of the context of punching up of down...
Seinfeld is clearly not watching my favorites of the past few years: What We Do in the Shadows, Wellington Paranormal, Our Flag Means Death, The Chair, Life and Beth...hilarious, sometimes profane, overtly sexual at times...way funnier than Seinfeld, which was always a "meh" with occasional hilarity for me.
right?!
Chalk him up to: Old man yells at clouds
It’s simple, Rich men do not want to pay taxes. He thinks he is still relevant.
Newman: ‘Just STFU, Jerry!’😒😐
Ol Jer is this close to quoting Grandpa Simpson verbatim.
“I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!”
“Yeah but none of the old sitcoms offended MEEEEE!”
>> Yes, that’s true test of one’s talent. It’s not a burden. It’s actually a gift. <<
I've never been a comedian, but I have written poetry. Writing poetry seems frustrating to some because of all the extra rules (there are no rules). Middling talents find ways to satisfy all the rules while saying something valuable. The great talents satisfy all the rules while also not sounding like they're trying to satisfy the rules. You don't have to end a sentence or clause at the end of a line, but you need a word with just enough emphasis so that its later rhyme resonates. For the great ones, the poetry speaks with a human voice that seems only accidentally to fit the artificial rules of a given poetic form.
That's the difference between a poetic giant and one who has a moment, a time when the form they find easiest to write in happens to be in fashion.
Your statement here reminds me of my poetic thoughts (and aspirations). Maybe Seinfeld's talent is less than we perceived, made funnier by the zeitgeist, and in a different time, he wouldn't achieve nearly the same success. While Larry David, constantly adapting, finds a way to fit natural humour to any fashionable form.
"Maybe Seinfeld's talent is less than we perceived, made funnier by the zeitgeist,"
I think you re absolutely 100% spot on...Even the SHOW 'Seinfeld' which I loved when it first came out hasn't aged very well
Oh, your point about following the rules, reminds me of how -- even removed from the context of the time in which they were released -- Hitchcock films are effective teaching aids from new writers. They are well-crafted and you can learn a lot by how the stories are set up.
It’s much harder to teach, say, a Woody Allen film because there’s a sort of “you had to be there” feel to them. *On paper* ANNIE HALL shouldn’t work because Alvy Singer is a pretty odious character -- narcissistic, arrogant, judgmental, and his relationship with Annie is abusive and unhealthy. It’s hardly the upbeat rom com someone thinks they can replicate by following its beats.
I considered CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM a comedy of manners, a form I enjoy. The comedic conflict was often David refusing to adhere to a “rule” he found absurd or protesting against those who didn’t follow a rule that he believed was important.
SEINFELD at its best went in that direction but did gradually become more cartonoish, a little too dark, after David left.
My favorite episode of the series, “The Opposite,” essentially shows Elaine’s life falling apart because she does not adhere to basic societal principles. (A lot of SEINFELD inspired series never grasp this -- their self-absorbed characters never suffer for their sins)
This isn't the first time Seinfeld has griped about this. Every time he does, what I hear is him saying "people don't think I"M funny anymore." Well, given that the show that made you hyper famous and wealthy was about a bunch of terrible people and their misadventures, maybe you aren't funny anymore. Why not just enjoy the Porsche collection your show let you buy?
I grew up in the 70s and 80s and I will be the FIRST to admit that a lot of things we thought were funny back then just are not anymore. Offensive stereotypes abounded, and my spouse and I both have watched old TV shows and said to each other, "I don't know how we ever thought that was funny." Does it bother us that we thought they were funny? Not really, as we both realize that times change. Seems a shame that Jerry Seinfeld doesn't understand it.
The big shift or shift-back happened with 30 Rock and Parks and Rec. Ensemble comedies of people who were flawed but overall decent people...They let episodes and the show itself move into moments of profound kindness and humanity...In a way it was a retro move, and points out how forward thinking the MTM show was....And per Seinifeld and that ilk, People just got fucking sick of all the cynicism and 'irony' of the 90s I think...
Your analysis does make sense; particularly the last part.
I kinda think it’s healthy for people to try to break out of generational expectations. Don’t just watch and listen to the stuff you thought was good when you were twenty three. Get out there, look around. And keep doing that, throughout your life. There’s always something new to find.
I think also a lot of the stuff people celebrate as ‘classic’ ages less well than they realise. Widely watched sitcoms in a universe of fewer channels had to have a pretty broad appeal...
This tending to make them well crafted for what they were but kinda generic and forgettable, too. Most of that stuff Seinfeld mentions I saw some and remember almost nothing of the actual stories. Mostly just a blur of laugh tracks.
I still have some respect for some of those sitcoms but I am also absolutely in no hurry to rewatch any of them. There is so much else, and those were so universal, so ubiquitous, it’s a bit like watching the cultural equivalent of wallpaper.
I recognize that every generation we're going to have to put up with the "things changed--and I. Don't. Like it." crowd, but I sure hope we do not ever have to take them seriously.
https://youtu.be/5DlTexEXxLQ?si=7kQlfjz5IomUYrbv
Jerry Seinfeld has reached an age where keeping up with changes in culture is too much work and stepping out of the mainstream to relive the 'golden era' is now the easiest way to cope.
My music and movie tastes, my sense of humour and my references with friends all skew back to the late 1980's early 1990s... was the time I was young and unstoppable. I currently can find all the old 80's and 90's movies I loved on Internet Archive as they aren't on streaming and are next to impossible to find on DVD.
Unlike Seinfeld, I don't carp on about woke leftists ruining everything.