I'm tired of liberals in progressive clothing who are pushed by the Democratic leadership:
“This week should be about two things: Republicans in Congress doing a smash and grab to gut Medicaid to give huge tax breaks to billionaires, and Donald Trump accepting massive bribes in the form of crypto payments and multi-million dollar jets,” Ezra Levin said. “Instead of that clear message, a handful of Senate Dems decided they’d rather do a big favor for the crypto industry and legitimize an avenue for Trump to collect bribes.”
I agree with this—I think also the decades of “soft” press (playing his ego as a funny thing, like he and the audience are in on the joke, his soft focus interviews on late night talk shows, Access Hollywood and The View, twice hosting SNL and of course a prime time spot on NBC for years) made it hard to later portray him as a fascist and racist. If he was so bad why did the liberal media folks keep having him on to play nice? Maybe they are lying about it now that he’s the GOP nominee!
He also does something no other major pol does—he entertains. His interviews, rallies, etc are all intended to entertain, like a comedian or WWE character. (I may not find him amusing but I recognize that he’s trying to be amusing, something politicians don’t do) when’s the last time Harris, Biden or even Obama did an appearance that people tuned in for not to get the political news value, but the entertainment value from? This explains how Trump appealed to people who don’t regularly vote. You’d think other pols would have learned from this, but nope.
If I may SER (and folks here),Ted Gioia wrote about this in his recent Substack. Maybe not specifically but in general about the fall of the assholes and about how we eventually self correct.
The fact that it does seem pretty unique to Drumpf seems to me to indicate: it might help to understand better what it is about his peculiar appeal. It’s puzzling to some of us, because to us he does seem incredibly repulsive and untrustworthy.
I’ve read literature on authoritarians and cult figures and their followers on and off over the years. Don’t pretend to be an expert.
I’m curious how much these figures believe their own lies. Suspect it is some peculiar mix after a while. I think they have to know they make stuff up to serve their own interests; one question is though do they start to believe it after a fashion themselves?
Regarding this: one fact sticks out to me about Drumpf beyond his apparent appeal: quite a few people who have met him and known him reasonably well talk about how apparently facile is his understanding of most things, how incurious he is. I don’t say this particularly to be mean; it’s just what I observe: a lot of people who have known him think him not too bright. It’s one of the things about him that stands out the most, apart from the neediness, the authoritarianism.
I do suspect it’s part of it. That it helps him. Partly because those opposed to him don’t expect him to succeed, may not see the danger clearly. Partly because it may give him some inside track in that he appeals to other of those similarly incurious. He sells lies well because he believes the same ones they do, or at least has a good feel for which ones they will. Partly because he may be pretty good at lying to himself. It does seem he’s not hard to deceive himself. Does he tell lies knowing they’re lies? Definitely. Does he come to believe them himself in some fashion? Possibly. It’s always hard to tell with figures like these. Does he believe others when they tell lies he wants to hear? Almost certainly. But again it might be just having a sense for what will have legs. He does seem very vulnerable to manipulation this way though. Like his followers, he seems eager to believe certain lies. That they simply make no sense, this he either does not notice, or does not care (or both). The overall incoherence of what he claims, the odd reversals, the inconsistencies and even contradictions, it doesn’t seem to bother him, and neither he nor his followers seem to notice. He’s kinda ideal this way for pouring out the firehose of bullshit that is so key to the current disinformation strategy of the fascist right. That it’s a particularly incoherent set of mutually exclusive lies, apparently this is no obstacle.
Speaking of, though, I do think though some of this is about the psychology of his followers. It may be that he’s so dim and needy and vain and unthinking beyond which lies he should tell next that he’s almost a nonentity. A way to project their own fears and hatreds. The apparent puzzlement that he did exactly what he said he would even when it hurt them does seem to me to point to selective hearing. He’s maybe not so much a leader to them as a symbol. Old white guy on and off apparently rich (he has had frequent lapses widely noted) who says the things they want to hear, tells them to hate the same people and things they kinda wanted to anyway. He’s effective possibly precisely because there’s so little of him, and into that vacuum they can put whatever. He licenses them, as noted, to be their worst selves through that: here’s a guy says those things out loud. And they hear what they like.
This is clearly part of the key: that he says those things. Whether it’s because he’s dumb enough or smart enough it’s hard to tell. It may in the sense explained above be both. He does seem to have some sense for what people will believe. But it’s still: okay, but a lot of people do that, especially now that he and his have so licensed it. What’s different about when he does?
It seems to imply, anyway: watch out for people with those traits. That emptiness, that hunger, and that willingness. But I guess we knew that already.
Same on the cult thing- I agree with many who say "it's a cult". Trump, hate or love him, certainly has charisma or Mark Burnett wouldn't have bothered with him. When he's gone, we'll still be stuck with all the nutjobs we had before - the militias, the religious nutjobs, the tea party, and the bombastic men's right jerks - but they won't be under one umbrella. I don't know how much that'll matter. My friends vote Republican because their grandfather hated FDR.
i think in those congressional hearings Sen. Ossoff is formidable. 💖i was shocked that Marge won over her opponent Shawn Harris, a retired United States Army Brigadier General! WTAF Georgia!🤦🏽♀️💔 sometimes i wonder if felon47 hasn't been 25th Amendmented (prolly not a word🤷🏽♀️) because they all know "President Vance" would be soon impeached and the cabinet would ALL be indicted.
I don't relish President Vance, which is what we will get if trump is impeached AND convicted, or if he's 25th Amendmented out of office, or if he croaks. However, I hope that he won't be worse, and for the reason that you cite - trump's appeal isn't transferable, the magas won't give him the deference they give trump. I hope that also holds true for the MSM, but I ain't betting on it. The MSM is a lost cause.
I truly believe that Vance is so repugnant that were Rump to die and leave the job up to him, that the GQP would try to 25th amendment HIM. To them as the now leader of the party he’d be nothing more than cannon fodder.
For voters, Democrats need to be perfect. Republicans only need excuses. I can see people making excuses to vote for Three Names.
Second the cult of personality definitely counts for a LOT. These people are willing to destroy their own very lives and livelihoods for the MAGA cause (the racism and the ethnic cleansing). Even the ones complaining about the tariffs destroying their business. With the aid of the rightwing media human centipede they'll make sure that as many people as possible believe it's somehow Democrats' fault.
And as for the foul public hair golem that is Pope Slayer, I don't even count him out. Yes, he is the miserable personification of finding both dead and living cockroaches in a bowl of granola you just took a bite out of. Yes the "jokes" he tells are so unfunny he curdles milk. Yes, he's the Nancy Mace of VIce Presidents. But when the chips are down, Republicans know to always vote.
So Dems keep top eye and never count out any MAGA acolyte...no matter how crazy. Don't even focus on polls. Just make sure you vote.
I don't think his celebrity cancels out the cult thing, I think it just makes it bigger.
Elections, like laws, like people, are complex. Not only does the cult follow him, but there's enough sexism and racism to eliminate the likes of Greene or Walker- for now- from winning a statewide race. The Re-pube-lickin' party knows that it doesn't matter how big a fool you look, as long as you win. The Left (including the voters) simply does not feel the same way, and can't run campaigns in a similar way and succeed.
That is exactly what I've been saying for a while now...The mojo, WHATEVER the fuck it is (I just don't see it or ever WILL see it but it can't be denied) is NOT transferrable...This is a cult of personality and like ALL cults of personality, once that personality is 'no longer' the cult dissipates with it. The spell breaks.
"Hi, my name is Bob and I'm sorry to inform you that our leader David Koresh is 'no longer with us', but no worries, I'll be your new leader that you will defer to in all matters
"Hi, my name is Bob and I'm sorry to inform you that our leader Marshall Applewhite took a ride on a lesser comet this morning. I'll be calling the shots here on out and in case you were wondering, YES the self castration and jumpsuits and orange sneakers an the mass suicide pact is STILL on, and Haley's comet ain't gonna fly itself amiright guys?
Yep, I am in full agreement, and I've also been saying this for quite awhile. I know that if anything happens to Krasnov, people are worried about the cult turning its devotion to Vance—but that won't happen because 𝐡𝐞 𝐢𝐬𝐧'𝐭 𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐦𝐩. Even THEY can't stand that smarmy asshole.
The only thing that's a bit unnerving is, what happens after trump slithers off this mortal coil. The trump spell may be broken but there could be someone smarter and even more evil waiting in the wings who steps in quickly to take the reins of the cult. And that is something I'd rather not think about...
Another RW cult is inevitable eventually, but I doubt it will come right off the tails of 'Trumpism'...Trump is the product of a perfect storm. The 'right' person at the right time during particular circumstances...Trump is a narrative arc that once played out will be 'over'...The terrible people who support him will still exist but they'll have lost the thread and the fracturing among them will be spectacular to behold. These are hateful antisocial people who don't even like EACH OTHER who were able to come together around ONE central personality...A new leader can't be chosen, its an emergent process that can't be controlled or predicted...And honestly? I think that MAGA itself is utterly exhausted and demoralized at this point but because of the sickness of existential authoritarian pride, they are literally incapable of admitting it...Once trump is 'gone', they will have an excuse to disengage and crawl back under their respective rocks. Like herpes, the MAGA personality type is forever, its just better for everyone when its not 'presenting
I hope you are right. The example of Ron Desantis is instructive. He and his execrable mate, Tacky-O, thought that they were the logical inheritors of the Trumpcult. They were dead wrong.
These moments are like a fever that has to burn itself out...A kind of a purge after a long build up of grievances, many of which in this case aren't based in reality
Wholeheartedly agree! None of the Trump wannabes have the unique combination of shameless self-promotion, fawning media attention, and decades of public recognition. I believe (and hope) that the Trump cult is a one-off result of idiocracy run amuck. In his case, the more insane he speaks, the more the cult loves him. Scandals enhance him.
I'm tired of liberals in progressive clothing who are pushed by the Democratic leadership:
“This week should be about two things: Republicans in Congress doing a smash and grab to gut Medicaid to give huge tax breaks to billionaires, and Donald Trump accepting massive bribes in the form of crypto payments and multi-million dollar jets,” Ezra Levin said. “Instead of that clear message, a handful of Senate Dems decided they’d rather do a big favor for the crypto industry and legitimize an avenue for Trump to collect bribes.”
https://substack.com/@cryptadamus/note/c-118568083
I agree with this—I think also the decades of “soft” press (playing his ego as a funny thing, like he and the audience are in on the joke, his soft focus interviews on late night talk shows, Access Hollywood and The View, twice hosting SNL and of course a prime time spot on NBC for years) made it hard to later portray him as a fascist and racist. If he was so bad why did the liberal media folks keep having him on to play nice? Maybe they are lying about it now that he’s the GOP nominee!
He also does something no other major pol does—he entertains. His interviews, rallies, etc are all intended to entertain, like a comedian or WWE character. (I may not find him amusing but I recognize that he’s trying to be amusing, something politicians don’t do) when’s the last time Harris, Biden or even Obama did an appearance that people tuned in for not to get the political news value, but the entertainment value from? This explains how Trump appealed to people who don’t regularly vote. You’d think other pols would have learned from this, but nope.
If I may SER (and folks here),Ted Gioia wrote about this in his recent Substack. Maybe not specifically but in general about the fall of the assholes and about how we eventually self correct.
https://www.honest-broker.com/p/can-you-fool-the-audience?triedRedirect=true
The fact that it does seem pretty unique to Drumpf seems to me to indicate: it might help to understand better what it is about his peculiar appeal. It’s puzzling to some of us, because to us he does seem incredibly repulsive and untrustworthy.
I’ve read literature on authoritarians and cult figures and their followers on and off over the years. Don’t pretend to be an expert.
I’m curious how much these figures believe their own lies. Suspect it is some peculiar mix after a while. I think they have to know they make stuff up to serve their own interests; one question is though do they start to believe it after a fashion themselves?
Regarding this: one fact sticks out to me about Drumpf beyond his apparent appeal: quite a few people who have met him and known him reasonably well talk about how apparently facile is his understanding of most things, how incurious he is. I don’t say this particularly to be mean; it’s just what I observe: a lot of people who have known him think him not too bright. It’s one of the things about him that stands out the most, apart from the neediness, the authoritarianism.
I do suspect it’s part of it. That it helps him. Partly because those opposed to him don’t expect him to succeed, may not see the danger clearly. Partly because it may give him some inside track in that he appeals to other of those similarly incurious. He sells lies well because he believes the same ones they do, or at least has a good feel for which ones they will. Partly because he may be pretty good at lying to himself. It does seem he’s not hard to deceive himself. Does he tell lies knowing they’re lies? Definitely. Does he come to believe them himself in some fashion? Possibly. It’s always hard to tell with figures like these. Does he believe others when they tell lies he wants to hear? Almost certainly. But again it might be just having a sense for what will have legs. He does seem very vulnerable to manipulation this way though. Like his followers, he seems eager to believe certain lies. That they simply make no sense, this he either does not notice, or does not care (or both). The overall incoherence of what he claims, the odd reversals, the inconsistencies and even contradictions, it doesn’t seem to bother him, and neither he nor his followers seem to notice. He’s kinda ideal this way for pouring out the firehose of bullshit that is so key to the current disinformation strategy of the fascist right. That it’s a particularly incoherent set of mutually exclusive lies, apparently this is no obstacle.
Speaking of, though, I do think though some of this is about the psychology of his followers. It may be that he’s so dim and needy and vain and unthinking beyond which lies he should tell next that he’s almost a nonentity. A way to project their own fears and hatreds. The apparent puzzlement that he did exactly what he said he would even when it hurt them does seem to me to point to selective hearing. He’s maybe not so much a leader to them as a symbol. Old white guy on and off apparently rich (he has had frequent lapses widely noted) who says the things they want to hear, tells them to hate the same people and things they kinda wanted to anyway. He’s effective possibly precisely because there’s so little of him, and into that vacuum they can put whatever. He licenses them, as noted, to be their worst selves through that: here’s a guy says those things out loud. And they hear what they like.
This is clearly part of the key: that he says those things. Whether it’s because he’s dumb enough or smart enough it’s hard to tell. It may in the sense explained above be both. He does seem to have some sense for what people will believe. But it’s still: okay, but a lot of people do that, especially now that he and his have so licensed it. What’s different about when he does?
It seems to imply, anyway: watch out for people with those traits. That emptiness, that hunger, and that willingness. But I guess we knew that already.
100%
Same on the cult thing- I agree with many who say "it's a cult". Trump, hate or love him, certainly has charisma or Mark Burnett wouldn't have bothered with him. When he's gone, we'll still be stuck with all the nutjobs we had before - the militias, the religious nutjobs, the tea party, and the bombastic men's right jerks - but they won't be under one umbrella. I don't know how much that'll matter. My friends vote Republican because their grandfather hated FDR.
I live in an area in North Florida surrounded by former Dixiecrats. They would vote for genital herpes before they would vote for a Democrat again.
America has elected more presidents like Trump than they have Harris.
I guess I need to know what you mean when you say "like Trump"?
Same with my friends.
i think in those congressional hearings Sen. Ossoff is formidable. 💖i was shocked that Marge won over her opponent Shawn Harris, a retired United States Army Brigadier General! WTAF Georgia!🤦🏽♀️💔 sometimes i wonder if felon47 hasn't been 25th Amendmented (prolly not a word🤷🏽♀️) because they all know "President Vance" would be soon impeached and the cabinet would ALL be indicted.
Completely agree that Trump’s “gifts” aren’t transferable. Remember, ETTD.
Marjorie Taylor Greene says she won’t run for Senate.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marjorie-taylor-greene-senate-jon-ossoff/
I don't relish President Vance, which is what we will get if trump is impeached AND convicted, or if he's 25th Amendmented out of office, or if he croaks. However, I hope that he won't be worse, and for the reason that you cite - trump's appeal isn't transferable, the magas won't give him the deference they give trump. I hope that also holds true for the MSM, but I ain't betting on it. The MSM is a lost cause.
I think removing Trump would be worth it. Vance would be politically neutered at that point, and his appeal is far more limited than Trump’s.
I truly believe that Vance is so repugnant that were Rump to die and leave the job up to him, that the GQP would try to 25th amendment HIM. To them as the now leader of the party he’d be nothing more than cannon fodder.
I dunno! I never count out Three Names.
For voters, Democrats need to be perfect. Republicans only need excuses. I can see people making excuses to vote for Three Names.
Second the cult of personality definitely counts for a LOT. These people are willing to destroy their own very lives and livelihoods for the MAGA cause (the racism and the ethnic cleansing). Even the ones complaining about the tariffs destroying their business. With the aid of the rightwing media human centipede they'll make sure that as many people as possible believe it's somehow Democrats' fault.
And as for the foul public hair golem that is Pope Slayer, I don't even count him out. Yes, he is the miserable personification of finding both dead and living cockroaches in a bowl of granola you just took a bite out of. Yes the "jokes" he tells are so unfunny he curdles milk. Yes, he's the Nancy Mace of VIce Presidents. But when the chips are down, Republicans know to always vote.
So Dems keep top eye and never count out any MAGA acolyte...no matter how crazy. Don't even focus on polls. Just make sure you vote.
I don't think his celebrity cancels out the cult thing, I think it just makes it bigger.
Elections, like laws, like people, are complex. Not only does the cult follow him, but there's enough sexism and racism to eliminate the likes of Greene or Walker- for now- from winning a statewide race. The Re-pube-lickin' party knows that it doesn't matter how big a fool you look, as long as you win. The Left (including the voters) simply does not feel the same way, and can't run campaigns in a similar way and succeed.
LOL!
That is exactly what I've been saying for a while now...The mojo, WHATEVER the fuck it is (I just don't see it or ever WILL see it but it can't be denied) is NOT transferrable...This is a cult of personality and like ALL cults of personality, once that personality is 'no longer' the cult dissipates with it. The spell breaks.
"Hi, my name is Bob and I'm sorry to inform you that our leader David Koresh is 'no longer with us', but no worries, I'll be your new leader that you will defer to in all matters
"Hi, my name is Bob and I'm sorry to inform you that our leader Marshall Applewhite took a ride on a lesser comet this morning. I'll be calling the shots here on out and in case you were wondering, YES the self castration and jumpsuits and orange sneakers an the mass suicide pact is STILL on, and Haley's comet ain't gonna fly itself amiright guys?
etc
Yep, I am in full agreement, and I've also been saying this for quite awhile. I know that if anything happens to Krasnov, people are worried about the cult turning its devotion to Vance—but that won't happen because 𝐡𝐞 𝐢𝐬𝐧'𝐭 𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐦𝐩. Even THEY can't stand that smarmy asshole.
The only thing that's a bit unnerving is, what happens after trump slithers off this mortal coil. The trump spell may be broken but there could be someone smarter and even more evil waiting in the wings who steps in quickly to take the reins of the cult. And that is something I'd rather not think about...
Another RW cult is inevitable eventually, but I doubt it will come right off the tails of 'Trumpism'...Trump is the product of a perfect storm. The 'right' person at the right time during particular circumstances...Trump is a narrative arc that once played out will be 'over'...The terrible people who support him will still exist but they'll have lost the thread and the fracturing among them will be spectacular to behold. These are hateful antisocial people who don't even like EACH OTHER who were able to come together around ONE central personality...A new leader can't be chosen, its an emergent process that can't be controlled or predicted...And honestly? I think that MAGA itself is utterly exhausted and demoralized at this point but because of the sickness of existential authoritarian pride, they are literally incapable of admitting it...Once trump is 'gone', they will have an excuse to disengage and crawl back under their respective rocks. Like herpes, the MAGA personality type is forever, its just better for everyone when its not 'presenting
I hope you are right. The example of Ron Desantis is instructive. He and his execrable mate, Tacky-O, thought that they were the logical inheritors of the Trumpcult. They were dead wrong.
These moments are like a fever that has to burn itself out...A kind of a purge after a long build up of grievances, many of which in this case aren't based in reality
Wholeheartedly agree! None of the Trump wannabes have the unique combination of shameless self-promotion, fawning media attention, and decades of public recognition. I believe (and hope) that the Trump cult is a one-off result of idiocracy run amuck. In his case, the more insane he speaks, the more the cult loves him. Scandals enhance him.
Never again, or we are indeed lost as a country.